TOS: The Enemy Within

[Makeshift Python]

The misogyny in "The Enemy Within" is atrocious and deserves to be called out.

There was none.

There was plenty of it in TOS.

[Yukaphile]

Thank you, Riedquat!

[Enterprising]

The misogyny in "The Enemy Within" is atrocious and deserves to be called out.

There was none.

There was plenty of it in TOS.

Where then? I didn't see any at all through the entire TOS run. Then again, I'm not applying present day standards to a show made 50 years + before those standards came to be. We can find many things in older film work that could be seen now as amusing, immoral, disturbing or improper. Things like PTSD or concussions were in the past either dismissed as something far more trivial, or ignored completely.

Unless you can prove the writers of the day put what they did on the page with the conscious intent to undermine/trivialise, women, PTSD or whatever the subject, then applying such labels such as "misogyny" to the material is pretty much absurd. If it's material far more modern doing it, then hey go nuts with the outrage/agenda. TNG season 1 will give you some good ammo, a bunch of those scripts weren't fit for 80s television and belonged in the 60s.

[Makeshift Python]

Unless you can prove the writers of the day put what they did on the page with the conscious intent to undermine/trivialise, women, PTSD or whatever the subject, then applying such labels such as "misogyny" to the material is pretty much absurd.

They don't have to show conscious intent to display their misogynistic attitudes towards women, that's what makes misogyny insidious in that it's more institutional than intentional. Can you really watch episodes like "Wolf on the Fold" and "Turnabout Intruder" without coming away with the idea that women are fearful and emotionally irrational people? The writers probably didn't actually think women should be undermined, but they obviously have these preconceived notions of how women are and work that into their writing without realizing how gross it is. When Janice Lester says "your world of starship captains doesn't admit women", that wasn't the show displaying a character just spouting out a lie, it was very likely something the writers thought how Starfleet functioned as that's reflection of how gender roles in the 1960s worked. Of course years later that's been retconned, and rightfully.

And then there's the ending of "The Enemy Within", which is supposed to tell you that Janice actually enjoyed being assaulted by Kirk, because there was and still is this belief among men that women actually don't mind rape because they're just playing hard to get.

[Enterprising]

Unless you can prove the writers of the day put what they did on the page with the conscious intent to undermine/trivialise, women, PTSD or whatever the subject, then applying such labels such as "misogyny" to the material is pretty much absurd.

They don't have to show conscious intent to display their misogynistic attitudes towards women, that's what makes misogyny insidious in that it's more institutional than intentional. Can you really watch episodes like "Wolf on the Fold" and "Turnabout Intruder" without coming away with the idea that women are fearful and emotionally irrational people? The writers probably didn't actually think women should be undermined, but they obviously have these preconceived notions of how women are and work that into their writing without realizing how gross it is. When Janice Lester says "your world of starship captains doesn't admit women", that wasn't the show displaying a character just spouting out a lie, it was very likely something the writers thought how Starfleet functioned as that's reflection of how gender roles in the 1960s worked. Of course years later that's been retconned, and rightfully.

And then there's the ending of "The Enemy Within", which is supposed to tell you that Janice actually enjoyed being assaulted by Kirk, because there was and still is this belief among men that women actually don't mind rape because they're just playing hard to get.

Again no, because as I essentially already said the writers were 60s people, writing 60s scripts, for a 60s show for a 60s network. I've already said as well we can find such backwards mentalities of the time amusing, disturbing or whatnot. I find it personally a blend of amusing in how backwards some of it was, and pleasing in the sense it's very clear we've made a lot of progress since then, albeit there is plenty more still to make.

On the "no chick captains" point, I'm pretty convinced that specific point was taken on due to the almost universally negative reaction from studio & audience on the Number 1 character in The Cage, particularly from women. With the censors of the day, Roddenberry had to pick and choose what battles to go forward with on being more progressive on something over the studio's comfort level. The ones he picked can be debated I guess, but given Star Trek's legacy since then, suggests he may have picked the right ones. Star Trek Continues takes on wonderfully the specific issue of command level women in TOS Starfleet, and I highly recommend a watch if for anyone that hasn't seen it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMasSzFXaKQ&t)

On the last point, it's again a symptom of the times back then unfortunately. While the problem still exists, a lot of progress has been made in reducing it quite considerably and I can't see anyway doing that in a studio today would fly. There is also the actors as well, if something goes beyond what they deem to be acceptable, they would have refused to do a scene until enough changes were made to make it acceptable. There's plenty of instances from even back then of actors strong-arming like this.

[Makeshift Python]

Yes, they very much were 60s people, hence institutional misogyny, where it's not exactly conscious decisions but based on how people were brought up to see the world, which is why women had to fight so hard to get into positions of power to break out of that view of women.

Also the whole thing about NBC not accepting Number One because of being a woman as a first officer was actually a falsehood spread by Roddenberry. The real reason was that NBC thought Majel Barret was too wooden of an actress and that she was one of Roddenberry's mistresses, which they were not comfortable with. Roddenberry spread the falsehood because he didn't want to hurt her. Robert Justman had confirmed that. In fact, part of why Barrett had to wear a blonde wig was so that the NBC executives wouldn't immediately recognize her, and once they did they let it go because her role was much more minimal anyway.

[Yukaphile]

Hey, even the "applying standards from today to 50 years ago" doesn't work, given my grandfather, born in 1910, would never spout the bullshit TOS did at its worst, its most aggressively misogynistic. I don't think he ever thought of women as inherently more fearful, or thought women were such timid little creatures, or what "The Enemy Within" will do with Rand.

[Yukaphile]

There were still liberals in the 1960s who knew that was bullshit. TOS was not one such show to embrace those attitudes, however, and DS9's Odo sums it up best in that episode "Far Beyond the Stars" with Benny, namely that they sneer at that kind of progressive attitude because "that's for liberals and intellectuals," and shield racism and sexism behind a "we have to appeal to the mainstream" approach.

[Yukaphile]

BTW, just because outdated ideas of women being inferior, weaker, more frightened, and all those hateful outdated ideas were at their peak in the 1920s, again, doesn't mean there wasn't a small sliver of hope with liberals. Texas, freaking Texas elected the first female governor EVER in the late twenties. What does that tell you?

[Enterprising]

Yes, they very much were 60s people, hence institutional misogyny, where it's not exactly conscious decisions but based on how people were brought up to see the world, which is why women had to fight so hard to get into positions of power to break out of that view of women.

I'm afraid your eyes are cast in the wrong place, society of the time put that in place, not the institution. If society of the time had people play ukuleles on rooftops every day at noon, then hey that's what any institution would have got their people do too. So in an instance like this when one is given a "wrong" upbringing, and one makes decisions based on that upbringing, are we to instantly tar them with a brush like "misogyny" and condemn them forever with it? Wouldn't it be a good idea to at least check if they got along with the times first, and changed for the better like most people did?

Seems rather sad & ironic to rush out attaching a label to those that help make Star Trek, where indeed giving people a fair hearing and second chance is one of the very cores of Star Trek.

Also the whole thing about NBC not accepting Number One because of being a woman as a first officer was actually a falsehood spread by Roddenberry. The real reason was that NBC thought Majel Barret was too wooden of an actress and that she was one of Roddenberry's mistresses, which they were not comfortable with. Roddenberry spread the falsehood because he didn't want to hurt her. Robert Justman had confirmed that. In fact, part of why Barrett had to wear a blonde wig was so that the NBC executives wouldn't immediately recognize her, and once they did they let it go because her role was much more minimal anyway.

I'd be interested in a citation of this, as both Shatner and Nimoy have backed Roddenberry's account multiple times through the years.