STD - The War Without, The War Within

[Nealithi]

I think Chuck likes Tilley and that she does embody some of what the Federation means. She will extend the olive branch and will try to be your friend. No matter what.

As to Chuck's comment about how can the being that senses danger, possibly allow Ash and the Emperor to roam the ship. He is basically a Pierson's Puppeteer. And like Nessus, he is actually a bit insane as far as his species is concerned. That is why he can be in Starfleet at all.

Now my thoughts on this show? I am sorry I am a bit cheap. I saw just enough before this aired to be leery just from the aesthetic. Then throw in I have to pay $6 a month to watch just this? If the reviews were good I would kick myself for not jumping in early and get that subscription. But I am not buying into a train wreck. And so far all the reviews I hear say about the same thing. Some how it is not Star Trek. It might be interesting science fiction, but not Star Trek.

[Makeshift Python]

Some how it is not Star Trek. It might be interesting science fiction, but not Star Trek.

Which is what a lot of fans used to say of TNG back when it was first hitting the airwaves. ENT was "not Star Trek" in the early 2000s. But now fans lump them all together. I look forward to when more fans lump in DISCOVERY with the rest, though I don't look forward to when fans completely dismiss the next show as "not Star Trek".

VOYAGER is my least favorite show of the franchise, but I wouldn't go as far claiming it's not Star Trek.

[Karha of Honor]

Some how it is not Star Trek. It might be interesting science fiction, but not Star Trek.

Which is what a lot of fans used to say of TNG back when it was first hitting the airwaves. ENT was "not Star Trek" in the early 2000s. But now fans lump them all together. I look forward to when more fans lump in DISCOVERY with the rest, though I don't look forward to when fans completely dismiss the next show as "not Star Trek".

VOYAGER is my least favorite show of the franchise, but I wouldn't go as far claiming it's not Star Trek.

ENT had bad Xena episode level writing and no charisma characters.

I know it's hard to get, but got evidence for your TNG statement?

[Nealithi]

Some how it is not Star Trek. It might be interesting science fiction, but not Star Trek.

Which is what a lot of fans used to say of TNG back when it was first hitting the airwaves. ENT was "not Star Trek" in the early 2000s. But now fans lump them all together. I look forward to when more fans lump in DISCOVERY with the rest, though I don't look forward to when fans completely dismiss the next show as "not Star Trek".

VOYAGER is my least favorite show of the franchise, but I wouldn't go as far claiming it's not Star Trek.

Back when TNG came out I was irked that the new Captain seemed to be waiting to surrender to the next shuttle craft to fly past. But I did call it Star Trek. DS9 came in being Star Trek. Voyager again was. Did I like how they were done? Not always. But it still felt like a fit. All of it gelled. Enterprise concerned me. Because when it first came out it tried to distance itself from Star Trek by not having Star Trek in its name. It seemed Trek, it used lore and concepts, But at first denied the connection?

Discovery. . . Feels off. Would a space show with savage aliens starting a war with a peace loving human dominated society and we have one new ship with an experimental drive to try and counter them be off for science fiction? No. An analogy I was thinking of on my first post was not all rock and roll is Elvis, and not all pop is Michael Jackson. That does not make them bad. Just not what would be considered the 'kings'.

The reveal of Michael being an adopted older half sister to Spock. . That reminds me of another review of Chuck's. Where he pointed out a list of things fan fiction could not do. But they put it into an episode because they were just out of ideas. That link feels fan fiction forced. The concept of the character. Human raised among vulcans and having issues living among humans again. Good concept. Did it have to be Sarek and Spock though? Did you have to use the mirror universe this extensively? Which as Yukaphile has pointed out is a pretty big plot hole. How they got away with it in Enterprise by not having any of the crew actually cross over and meet it? Nicely done. Could the mirror versions been done better? Sure. But the method the mirror verse was used was well done.
If they had the mirror verse doing things and no one in main timeline knowing what was happening it might have been fine. But other wise it feels done for saving throws. 'Oh the captain is too ruthless for starfleet? Yeah he is from the mirror verse. Miss this great character we discarded too easily? He is her counterpart. Etc. The links to Trek seem more like plot holes than plot points.
Hence it does not feel like Trek to me. Maybe it is like a dislocated limb and I am just waiting for it to snap into position and fit right. But to me, now, it doesn't.

[clearspira]

Some how it is not Star Trek. It might be interesting science fiction, but not Star Trek.

Which is what a lot of fans used to say of TNG back when it was first hitting the airwaves. ENT was "not Star Trek" in the early 2000s. But now fans lump them all together. I look forward to when more fans lump in DISCOVERY with the rest, though I don't look forward to when fans completely dismiss the next show as "not Star Trek".

VOYAGER is my least favorite show of the franchise, but I wouldn't go as far claiming it's not Star Trek.

Did you seriously just compare the reaction to TNG to STD? That is just... incredible to me. I am old enough to remember TNGs critical reception and it isn't this.
Oh, and btw, NO ONE is lumping in ENT with TNG. It is still the second most hated Trek series out there by a mile. You may want that to be true, but it isn't.

DISCOVERY isn’t obligated to address stuff like that, and neither was ENT, or any of the previous shows for that matter. It’s just a fictional franchise, you’re not supposed to nitpick the canonical inconsistencies in stuff like that beyond just poking at them for fun, which DS9 did tastefully when addressing how Worf doesn’t look like a TOS Klingon. It was a fun in-joke for the fans to address the elephant in the room and then resume on without ever having to look further.

Here we go: the its only fiction argument as if somehow our feelings for people who are not real somehow mean nothing at all. Y'know, football does not matter either. The country is not coming to end if the Philadelphia Eagles win or lose, it really does not matter either way to any meaningful measure. And yet people spend their lives passionately dedicated to watching and following it. Do their feelings not matter for their property of choice either? Or is sport different to a TV show for some ill-defined reason?

[Yukaphile]

I think the problem here is a problem that Trek fans expect better from their beloved franchise, and because of the mishandling of the direction of the series, namely that it's being created simply to sell CBS's all-access streaming service, we're not going to get that. Clever plots, tight continuity, and interesting characters take a backseat to that. And that's what it should be about, in the end. TOS, TNG, and DS9 proved that, otherwise they wouldn't have done so well. It really goes back to what I said about corporate greed.

[clearspira]

I think the problem here is a problem that Trek fans expect better from their beloved franchise, and because of the mishandling of the direction of the series, namely that it's being created simply to sell CBS's all-access streaming service, we're not going to get that. Clever plots, tight continuity, and interesting characters take a backseat to that. And that's what it should be about, in the end. TOS, TNG, and DS9 proved that, otherwise they wouldn't have done so well. It really goes back to what I said about corporate greed.

Midnight's Edge on Youtube coined the perfect description of STD: it is Star Trek for people who don't actually like Star Trek.

[SuccubusYuri]

I don't think anyone was specifically talking about TNG's "critical" reception. I think they meant the fans, ala Walter Koenig's "we have been betrayed!" phase.

[Actarus]

I think the problem here is a problem that Trek fans expect better from their beloved franchise, and because of the mishandling of the direction of the series, namely that it's being created simply to sell CBS's all-access streaming service, we're not going to get that. Clever plots, tight continuity, and interesting characters take a backseat to that. And that's what it should be about, in the end. TOS, TNG, and DS9 proved that, otherwise they wouldn't have done so well. It really goes back to what I said about corporate greed.

Midnight's Edge on Youtube coined the perfect description of STD: it is Star Trek for people who don't actually like Star Trek.

Midnight's Edge can go take a nap, for all I care. As do all his ilk that plague the Web. I like Discovery, and I like Star Trek. I don't care what some angry sourpusses on YouTube (or this forum) believe.

This is Star Trek, not a stupid religion. There's no such thing as "true fans", as if they were "true believers". Some like DSC, some don't. Some like VOY, some don't. Some like the kelvinverse, some do not. That does not make any of them more or less a Star Trek fan.

[Karha of Honor]

I think the problem here is a problem that Trek fans expect better from their beloved franchise, and because of the mishandling of the direction of the series, namely that it's being created simply to sell CBS's all-access streaming service, we're not going to get that. Clever plots, tight continuity, and interesting characters take a backseat to that. And that's what it should be about, in the end. TOS, TNG, and DS9 proved that, otherwise they wouldn't have done so well. It really goes back to what I said about corporate greed.

Midnight's Edge on Youtube coined the perfect description of STD: it is Star Trek for people who don't actually like Star Trek.

Midnight's Edge can go take a nap, for all I care. As do all his ilk that plague the Web. I like Discovery, and I like Star Trek. I don't care what some angry sourpusses on YouTube (or this forum) believe.

You call them a plague and you say you don't care about them...

The two portion of the sentences are like: