Batman TAS - The Forgotten

[FaxModem1]

The bigger issue is what they have Batman do when he's not investigating or stopping a crime. Is he roaming around the city looking for more purse snatchers to stop, or is he stopping a sizable amount of potential purse snatchers by giving them a chance at a better life through jobs programs and homeless shelters?

For the past couple decades? Both.

The issue then, is why we see homeless in Gotham. Gotham shouldn't have such noticeable social problems if Batman is doing all he can to stop the causes of crime.

The bigger issue is what they have Batman do when he's not investigating or stopping a crime. Is he roaming around the city looking for more purse snatchers to stop, or is he stopping a sizable amount of potential purse snatchers by giving them a chance at a better life through jobs programs and homeless shelters?

I'm going to take a loose stab on it and give the benefit of the doubt with respect to superhero narrative. In Gotham he has developed a reputation around every district that heightens the stakes greatly for any auspicious street crime guy. As he goes for the bigger and bigger fish, he just sweeps through the different areas one by one along the way and it keeps his rep secure.

The issue becomes when we have sight of Batman's wealth and his spending power vs what we see him do with it, and what we know is effective in stopping crime. I guess it's the dissonance of being a ten year old and accepting the good guys vs bad guys narrative, and critically thinking about it when you're an adult, and wondering where Wayne's financial efforts are going.

Alex Ross's Justice showed a great part of this, with the supervillains pretending to do good by solving all the world's problems with their mad science and superpowers, which brought the question of why the Justice League doesn't do the same. On a more minor and solvable scale, there's the question of why the same thing is going on in Gotham, given that Wayne Industries seems to have a hand in everything there, and could easily bankroll housing projects, job programs, etc., rather than a new bat-boat.

[Madner Kami]

I'll say that much. Right now, I am 36 years old. I earn more than that, but I put myself in a place, where I can comfortably live off a 1,000€ a month, which covers rent, food, water, heating, clothing, TV, internet, mobile phone and still have money left over to buy a new computer every few years in addition to some extra for other hobbies or unexpected money-sinks. Assuming I live another 50 years, I'd need a meager 600,000€ to cover the rest of my life without ever having to work again. How much does a Bat-Boat cost again? How many people could easily get out of the worst by just giving them 10,000€, say $15,000? Heck, just by giving everyone enough to afford being able to go to college to earn a degree or a free student loan, you'd solve so many problems easily. You got any idea how fast this would snowball into an economy boost that made any sort of crime outside of addictions and white collar crimes completely and utterly pointless? Or even better yet: Free health care for all Gothamites. How many US citizens are in debt just because they need new glasses or some medication to function in a normal manner?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The bigger issue is what they have Batman do when he's not investigating or stopping a crime. Is he roaming around the city looking for more purse snatchers to stop, or is he stopping a sizable amount of potential purse snatchers by giving them a chance at a better life through jobs programs and homeless shelters?

For the past couple decades? Both.

The issue then, is why we see homeless in Gotham. Gotham shouldn't have such noticeable social problems if Batman is doing all he can to stop the causes of crime.

The bigger issue is what they have Batman do when he's not investigating or stopping a crime. Is he roaming around the city looking for more purse snatchers to stop, or is he stopping a sizable amount of potential purse snatchers by giving them a chance at a better life through jobs programs and homeless shelters?

I'm going to take a loose stab on it and give the benefit of the doubt with respect to superhero narrative. In Gotham he has developed a reputation around every district that heightens the stakes greatly for any auspicious street crime guy. As he goes for the bigger and bigger fish, he just sweeps through the different areas one by one along the way and it keeps his rep secure.

The issue becomes when we have sight of Batman's wealth and his spending power vs what we see him do with it, and what we know is effective in stopping crime. I guess it's the dissonance of being a ten year old and accepting the good guys vs bad guys narrative, and critically thinking about it when you're an adult, and wondering where Wayne's financial efforts are going.

Alex Ross's Justice showed a great part of this, with the supervillains pretending to do good by solving all the world's problems with their mad science and superpowers, which brought the question of why the Justice League doesn't do the same. On a more minor and solvable scale, there's the question of why the same thing is going on in Gotham, given that Wayne Industries seems to have a hand in everything there, and could easily bankroll housing projects, job programs, etc., rather than a new bat-boat.

I've seen several times a table of his that has a city scaled model on his table that's showcasing his development plans for Gotham. As I've said before, there's no reason Wayne Enterprises can't be assumed similar to real life conglomerates that may very well dab in philanthropy, but social conditions make for a not so apparent effect that has for what you see. Plus there might be a lot of Wayne Enterprises net asset value being tied with engagements and contracts with other companies, though that makes for an underwhelming narrative to incorporate unless the business partner is evil which does happen.

[TrueMetis]

The bigger issue is what they have Batman do when he's not investigating or stopping a crime. Is he roaming around the city looking for more purse snatchers to stop, or is he stopping a sizable amount of potential purse snatchers by giving them a chance at a better life through jobs programs and homeless shelters?

For the past couple decades? Both.

The issue then, is why we see homeless in Gotham. Gotham shouldn't have such noticeable social problems if Batman is doing all he can to stop the causes of crime.

*Shrug* Gotham's cursed?

Really the only explanation is that the plot needs Gotham to be like that in order for the narrative to function. It's the same reason why no one has offed the Joker, and Arkham is so easy to break out of despite the fact the government really should have just executed most of them.

So it doesn't matter that in a lot of stories Bruce Wayne has done enough philanthropy to turn Gotham into a city that would make Metropolis look like a shit hole in comparison, because if Gotham isn't a haven of crime and corruption you wouldn't have a Batman.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Gotham is a very polarized concept of a city. The inequality index is very weighted on excessively wealthy and more humble dwellings. Sure you have Lex Luthor in Metropolis, but then you have the court of owls in Gotham, and I'm even sure where the story hides so many affluent people orchestrating such control aside Wayne Enterprises.

Generic organized crime leaders like Falcone, Mosconey, and a few others, maybe even Black Mask can fit in together and exploit general commerce in Gotham or any other eastern seaboard metropolitan area. From there you have the supervillains that medal between organized corruption lines, and sure enough have a squad of their own with cute little masks so you can see whose goons you're dealing with in the video games.

[Darth Wedgius]

A couple points that might be worth mentioning (or might not).

1) Gotham gets attacked repeatedly by supervillains who kill several people and would probably kill more if it weren't for the dynamic duo. It might not be a statistically big number, but look at our reaction to terrorist attacks. The businesses that are there might either be those that can't leave (service industries), are there for the really cheap real estate (bad news, we're still cleaning up what's left of that tower across the street; good news, you now have an ocean view), or are run by a billionaire playboy who responds to any suggestion to relocate with a glare that sends chills down your very soul. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the higher-paying jobs go elsewhere. I don't know if even Apple would keep employees there. Stopping supervillains as he does might be all that keeps Gotham City from turning into circa-1991 Somalia.

2) Wayne could give one million people one thousand dollars each and lose a billion dollars while not accomplishing much. Supes, on the other hand, could be selling delivering nickel-iron alloy and possibly baseball-sized diamonds by the trainload and giving the proceeds to the Loyal Order of Mooks' Widows and Orphans Fund. Though he wouldn't want to do the same trick very often; do the nickel-iron thing every day and the price goes down, miners lose work, and pick- and shovel-themed supervillains arise.

[FaxModem1]

A couple points that might be worth mentioning (or might not).

1) Gotham gets attacked repeatedly by supervillains who kill several people and would probably kill more if it weren't for the dynamic duo. It might not be a statistically big number, but look at our reaction to terrorist attacks. The businesses that are there might either be those that can't leave (service industries), are there for the really cheap real estate (bad news, we're still cleaning up what's left of that tower across the street; good news, you now have an ocean view), or are run by a billionaire playboy who responds to any suggestion to relocate with a glare that sends chills down your very soul. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the higher-paying jobs go elsewhere. I don't know if even Apple would keep employees there. Stopping supervillains as he does might be all that keeps Gotham City from turning into circa-1991 Somalia.

A competent police force, as well as a population with working population with good job prospects are probably going to have less reason to join Two Face's gang to rob banks and dealing with the 50/50 chance of being shot in the face by your biss when they have the option of a nice career at Waynetech with a 401k and full benefits.

There will always be those who are criminally inclined, but most will opt for the better option. You remove the henchmen, and people like the Scarecrow are a lot easier to deal with by the GCPD and/or Batman.

2) Wayne could give one million people one thousand dollars each and lose a billion dollars while not accomplishing much. Supes, on the other hand, could be selling delivering nickel-iron alloy and possibly baseball-sized diamonds by the trainload and giving the proceeds to the Loyal Order of Mooks' Widows and Orphans Fund. Though he wouldn't want to do the same trick very often; do the nickel-iron thing every day and the price goes down, miners lose work, and pick- and shovel-themed supervillains arise.

Sure, Superman could spend a lot of time just building skyscrapers for all the needy if he wanted. That's the problem with such a character, but I'm willing to say that the concept of such a character allows us to embrace that there are wacky things just as powerful as him around to keep him busy.

In Gotham, Bruce can outspend and outman any mobster or supervillain if he wanted to. He could even bribe the guards at Arkham to keep the inmates at Arkham dosed up to their eyeballs on tranquilizers and lithium if he wanted to, to give himself time to recover and carry out operations in Gotham so that he wouldn't be distracted. It'd be cheaper than actually building a competent mental health facility, anyway.

[Darth Wedgius]

A couple points that might be worth mentioning (or might not).

1) Gotham gets attacked repeatedly by supervillains who kill several people and would probably kill more if it weren't for the dynamic duo. It might not be a statistically big number, but look at our reaction to terrorist attacks. The businesses that are there might either be those that can't leave (service industries), are there for the really cheap real estate (bad news, we're still cleaning up what's left of that tower across the street; good news, you now have an ocean view), or are run by a billionaire playboy who responds to any suggestion to relocate with a glare that sends chills down your very soul. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the higher-paying jobs go elsewhere. I don't know if even Apple would keep employees there. Stopping supervillains as he does might be all that keeps Gotham City from turning into circa-1991 Somalia.

A competent police force, as well as a population with working population with good job prospects are probably going to have less reason to join Two Face's gang to rob banks and dealing with the 50/50 chance of being shot in the face by your biss when they have the option of a nice career at Waynetech with a 401k and full benefits.

There will always be those who are criminally inclined, but most will opt for the better option. You remove the henchmen, and people like the Scarecrow are a lot easier to deal with by the GCPD and/or Batman.

2) Wayne could give one million people one thousand dollars each and lose a billion dollars while not accomplishing much. Supes, on the other hand, could be selling delivering nickel-iron alloy and possibly baseball-sized diamonds by the trainload and giving the proceeds to the Loyal Order of Mooks' Widows and Orphans Fund. Though he wouldn't want to do the same trick very often; do the nickel-iron thing every day and the price goes down, miners lose work, and pick- and shovel-themed supervillains arise.

Sure, Superman could spend a lot of time just building skyscrapers for all the needy if he wanted. That's the problem with such a character, but I'm willing to say that the concept of such a character allows us to embrace that there are wacky things just as powerful as him around to keep him busy.

In Gotham, Bruce can outspend and outman any mobster or supervillain if he wanted to. He could even bribe the guards at Arkham to keep the inmates at Arkham dosed up to their eyeballs on tranquilizers and lithium if he wanted to, to give himself time to recover and carry out operations in Gotham so that he wouldn't be distracted. It'd be cheaper than actually building a competent mental health facility, anyway.

It's easy to overestimate how much difference a billionaire can make.

Amazon made $3 billion net income in 2017. Let's go with the assumption that Wayne Enterprises is just as big, and that Bruce Wayne has complete discretion on how that's spent.

Chicago has about 2.7 million people with an unemployment rate of 3.6%. Let's say Gotham has a similar population with 7% unemployment. That's 189,000 people. Federal poverty level for a family of four in the contiguous 48 states is $25,100. That's $4,743,900,000 with no 401K, no benefits, and poverty-level income.

Chicago PD had an annual budget of about $1.5 billion in 2018. Of course Wayne Enterprises wouldn't have to spend all that on the Gotham PD, but let's say a little over $200 million would make a big difference.

Wayne Enterprises is now spending $5 billion annually on Gotham, which is quite a bit more than Amazon makes. And I think the assumptions were pretty generous. If Gotham is more New York than Chicago, those numbers are much worse.

[FaxModem1]

Here's the issue with that. To my knowledge, Jeff Bezos isn't building space stations and buying his own fleet of spacecraft. The ISS costs 150 billion, and it's a lot less impressive than the Watchtower.

Bruce Wayne has that kind of spending capital at his disposal, somehow, and has enough money to wage his war on Gotham's criminal element while living very comfortably. The man clearly can afford to pay that.

That, or he's turning into outside funding. In which case, he can do the same for quality of life within Gotham.

[Darth Wedgius]

Here's the issue with that. To my knowledge, Jeff Bezos isn't building space stations and buying his own fleet of spacecraft. The ISS costs 150 billion, and it's a lot less impressive than the Watchtower.

Bruce Wayne has that kind of spending capital at his disposal, somehow, and has enough money to wage his war on Gotham's criminal element while living very comfortably. The man clearly can afford to pay that.

That, or he's turning into outside funding. In which case, he can do the same for quality of life within Gotham.

I guess it might come down to where the acceptable breaks from reality are. In comic books, you can come up with anti-gravity using parts from Radio Shack, high school students can create super-adhesives, and geniuses can create flying suits. ("In a cave! With a box of scraps!") I put down technological achievements as being far easier in that setting.

But if Bruce Wayne has access to funding that would make Jeff Bezos look like the Little Tramp, yes, he could turn Gotham into a paradise, ignoring the effects of what kind of economy that would work in.