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Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:50 am
Another straw man, Fuzzy.
Also, aren't congress and the president both responsible?
Yes, and at the start of the Shutdown the republican party had complete control of congress and the Democrats didn't even filibuster.
Not too surprising -- I watched the GOP candidates as they dropped out of the running throw their support to anybody but Trump during the election. If the GOP had superdelegates like the democrats do, or had been willing/able to do to Trump what the democrats did to Berrnie, I doubt we'd have Trump in office.
So congress and the president under the GOP was responsible, and now congress and the president under the democrats and the GOP are responsible for it continuing?
Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:49 am
Isn't it weird how the president is blaming democrats for the shut-down that he caused?
They wanted a culture war that lead to Trump...
Ah yes, if we didn't call people racist then Trump never would have gotten elected, so things he does are our fault instead of his own fault. Gotcha.
Another straw man, Fuzzy.
Also, aren't congress and the president both responsible?
How am I straw manning?
You are ridiculing an argument your opponent didn't make. He said culture war lead to Trump. He didn't say that made Trump's actions your fault, nor is the culture war the same thing as calling people racist.
clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:57 pm
It will not do what Trump says it will do and will almost certainly be pulled down by a future president anyway.
What makes you so sure?
Because it's a big dramatic way to show that the Trump administration is over that has basically no backlash because it removes an eye sore, and the wall is underwater in support even among republicans.
And there is a 100% guarantee that people will care about the Wall enough at that point to demolish it also the Wall will stay unpopular?
clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:57 pm
It will not do what Trump says it will do and will almost certainly be pulled down by a future president anyway.
What makes you so sure?
Because it's a big dramatic way to show that the Trump administration is over that has basically no backlash because it removes an eye sore, and the wall is underwater in support even among republicans.
And there is a 100% guarantee that people will care about the Wall enough at that point to demolish it also the Wall will stay unpopular?
Pretty much, yes. Eyesores generally don't grow on people, nor do boondoggles, nor do people tend to forgive having their land and homes taken, nor do monuments to racism tend to endear themselves to those they are meant to oppress. Imagine the reaction that Confederate monuments are getting now, and that's what Trump's wall will be facing when it goes up.
Also, the longer this shutdown goes on, the more people are going to hate the wall. We're already at the point where TSA is talking a wildcat strike. That basically shuts down all commercial air travel in the country. The polling data we have not only indicates that most people are blaming Trump for the shut down, but as time goes on he's actually shouldering more of the blame.
Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:52 am
Pretty much, yes. Eyesores generally don't grow on people, nor do boondoggles, nor do people tend to forgive having their land and homes taken, nor do monuments to racism tend to endear themselves to those they are meant to oppress. Imagine the reaction that Confederate monuments are getting now, and that's what Trump's wall will be facing when it goes up.
Also, the longer this shutdown goes on, the more people are going to hate the wall. We're already at the point where TSA is talking a wildcat strike. That basically shuts down all commercial air travel in the country. The polling data we have not only indicates that most people are blaming Trump for the shut down, but as time goes on he's actually shouldering more of the blame.
Depends on how the economy does long term and how history goes. Long term they might not hate the wall.
clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:57 pm
It will not do what Trump says it will do and will almost certainly be pulled down by a future president anyway.
What makes you so sure?
Because it's a big dramatic way to show that the Trump administration is over that has basically no backlash because it removes an eye sore, and the wall is underwater in support even among republicans.
And there is a 100% guarantee that people will care about the Wall enough at that point to demolish it also the Wall will stay unpopular?
Pretty much, yes. Eyesores generally don't grow on people, nor do boondoggles, nor do people tend to forgive having their land and homes taken, nor do monuments to racism tend to endear themselves to those they are meant to oppress. Imagine the reaction that Confederate monuments are getting now, and that's what Trump's wall will be facing when it goes up.
Also, the longer this shutdown goes on, the more people are going to hate the wall. We're already at the point where TSA is talking a wildcat strike. That basically shuts down all commercial air travel in the country. The polling data we have not only indicates that most people are blaming Trump for the shut down, but as time goes on he's actually shouldering more of the blame.
You mean like the Border Fence Act of 2006? Why didn't Obama tear it down during his presidency? You ever think that border security is actually a fairly universally popular thing and its popularity only dwindles when Democrat politicos browbeat the populous by making the whole topic racially charged?
Most mexican immigrants don't like illegal immigration ether. It's only when you scare them by assigning racist motivations to it that they fall in line.
