Neelix causes another government shutdown because he wants a bigger border wall

[Draco Dracul]

Pretty much, yes. Eyesores generally don't grow on people, nor do boondoggles, nor do people tend to forgive having their land and homes taken, nor do monuments to racism tend to endear themselves to those they are meant to oppress. Imagine the reaction that Confederate monuments are getting now, and that's what Trump's wall will be facing when it goes up.

Also, the longer this shutdown goes on, the more people are going to hate the wall. We're already at the point where TSA is talking a wildcat strike. That basically shuts down all commercial air travel in the country. The polling data we have not only indicates that most people are blaming Trump for the shut down, but as time goes on he's actually shouldering more of the blame.

Depends on how the economy does long term and how history goes. Long term they might not hate the wall.

History has a long arc....

We shall see...

The economy is already in extra innings due to the stupid tax cut, Trump's Tariffs are damaging multiple industries, and we're already looking at least on paycheck from the countries single largest employer missed this year.

There is no long term for the wall because should it be built, tear down the wall is going to be a rallying cry for the Democrats.

Isn't it weird how the president is blaming democrats for the shut-down that he caused?

They wanted a culture war that lead to Trump...

Ah yes, if we didn't call people racist then Trump never would have gotten elected, so things he does are our fault instead of his own fault. Gotcha.

If you take a deeper look...

It will not do what Trump says it will do and will almost certainly be pulled down by a future president anyway.

What makes you so sure?

Because it's a big dramatic way to show that the Trump administration is over that has basically no backlash because it removes an eye sore, and the wall is underwater in support even among republicans.

And there is a 100% guarantee that people will care about the Wall enough at that point to demolish it also the Wall will stay unpopular?

Pretty much, yes. Eyesores generally don't grow on people, nor do boondoggles, nor do people tend to forgive having their land and homes taken, nor do monuments to racism tend to endear themselves to those they are meant to oppress. Imagine the reaction that Confederate monuments are getting now, and that's what Trump's wall will be facing when it goes up.

Also, the longer this shutdown goes on, the more people are going to hate the wall. We're already at the point where TSA is talking a wildcat strike. That basically shuts down all commercial air travel in the country. The polling data we have not only indicates that most people are blaming Trump for the shut down, but as time goes on he's actually shouldering more of the blame.

You mean like the Border Fence Act of 2006? Why didn't Obama tear it down during his presidency? You ever think that border security is actually a fairly universally popular thing and its popularity only dwindles when Democrat politicos browbeat the populous by making the whole topic racially charged?

Most mexican immigrants don't like illegal immigration ether. It's only when you scare them by assigning racist motivations to it that they fall in line.

George Bush for all his many, many faults didn't hold the country hostage over the boarder fence, actively worked to reach out to the Latino community, and had an actually attempt at genuine immigration reform.

You don't have to assign racist motivations because the utterly broken immigration system that leads to people by passing it is the direct result of over 130 years of racist policy. I mean for fucks sake the first ever immigration restriction was the overtly racist Chinese Exclusion Act that not only banned anyone from China coming for 10 years, but also prevented any Chinese person from even applying to US Citizenship. Prior to that the universal process for immigrating to the the United States was getting on a boat, horse, or train and coming into the United States.

[Karha of Honor]

Pretty much, yes. Eyesores generally don't grow on people, nor do boondoggles, nor do people tend to forgive having their land and homes taken, nor do monuments to racism tend to endear themselves to those they are meant to oppress. Imagine the reaction that Confederate monuments are getting now, and that's what Trump's wall will be facing when it goes up.

Also, the longer this shutdown goes on, the more people are going to hate the wall. We're already at the point where TSA is talking a wildcat strike. That basically shuts down all commercial air travel in the country. The polling data we have not only indicates that most people are blaming Trump for the shut down, but as time goes on he's actually shouldering more of the blame.

Depends on how the economy does long term and how history goes. Long term they might not hate the wall.

History has a long arc....

We shall see...

The economy is already in extra innings due to the stupid tax cut, Trump's Tariffs are damaging multiple industries, and we're already looking at least on paycheck from the countries single largest employer missed this year.

There is no long term for the wall because should it be built, tear down the wall is going to be a rallying cry for the Democrats.

i don't mean right now, long term.

Why do you automatically assume your side will win and shall dominate? It's like when neocons said they have a permanent majority in the early naughties.

[Draco Dracul]

Pretty much, yes. Eyesores generally don't grow on people, nor do boondoggles, nor do people tend to forgive having their land and homes taken, nor do monuments to racism tend to endear themselves to those they are meant to oppress. Imagine the reaction that Confederate monuments are getting now, and that's what Trump's wall will be facing when it goes up.

Also, the longer this shutdown goes on, the more people are going to hate the wall. We're already at the point where TSA is talking a wildcat strike. That basically shuts down all commercial air travel in the country. The polling data we have not only indicates that most people are blaming Trump for the shut down, but as time goes on he's actually shouldering more of the blame.

Depends on how the economy does long term and how history goes. Long term they might not hate the wall.

History has a long arc....

We shall see...

The economy is already in extra innings due to the stupid tax cut, Trump's Tariffs are damaging multiple industries, and we're already looking at least on paycheck from the countries single largest employer missed this year.

There is no long term for the wall because should it be built, tear down the wall is going to be a rallying cry for the Democrats.

i don't mean right now, long term.

Why do you automatically assume your side will win and shall dominate? It's like when neocons said they have a permanent majority in the early naughties.

My side will not reign forever, but the whichever side defeats it will not be the Trump Coalition because the Trump Coalition is within a hair's breadth of being non-viable simply due to it's members dying of old age. And to be honest the Republican party has so thoroughly embraced a lost cause White identity into the core of their politics, I'm not sure the republican party can actually form another viable coalition.

[Antiboyscout]

George Bush for all his many, many faults didn't hold the country hostage over the boarder fence, actively worked to reach out to the Latino community, and had an actually attempt at genuine immigration reform.

You don't have to assign racist motivations because the utterly broken immigration system that leads to people by passing it is the direct result of over 130 years of racist policy. I mean for fucks sake the first ever immigration restriction was the overtly racist Chinese Exclusion Act that not only banned anyone from China coming for 10 years, but also prevented any Chinese person from even applying to US Citizenship. Prior to that the universal process for immigrating to the the United States was getting on a boat, horse, or train and coming into the United States.

You mean back when getting on a boat was quite expensive? Back when the US didn't have the massive social welfare system it has now? Half of all Italian migrants went back home if they didn't find work in the US. The chinese influx was dangerous. Not only because the US could not have absorbed the potential numbers of chinese that china's collapse was creating, the chinese government has always believed it was the rightful ruler of all chinese people no matter where they happened to be. Look at the turks in germany if you want to know how that could have worked.

[Karha of Honor]

Pretty much, yes. Eyesores generally don't grow on people, nor do boondoggles, nor do people tend to forgive having their land and homes taken, nor do monuments to racism tend to endear themselves to those they are meant to oppress. Imagine the reaction that Confederate monuments are getting now, and that's what Trump's wall will be facing when it goes up.

Also, the longer this shutdown goes on, the more people are going to hate the wall. We're already at the point where TSA is talking a wildcat strike. That basically shuts down all commercial air travel in the country. The polling data we have not only indicates that most people are blaming Trump for the shut down, but as time goes on he's actually shouldering more of the blame.

Depends on how the economy does long term and how history goes. Long term they might not hate the wall.

History has a long arc....

We shall see...

The economy is already in extra innings due to the stupid tax cut, Trump's Tariffs are damaging multiple industries, and we're already looking at least on paycheck from the countries single largest employer missed this year.

There is no long term for the wall because should it be built, tear down the wall is going to be a rallying cry for the Democrats.

i don't mean right now, long term.

Why do you automatically assume your side will win and shall dominate? It's like when neocons said they have a permanent majority in the early naughties.

My side will not reign forever, but the whichever side defeats it will not be the Trump Coalition because the Trump Coalition is within a hair's breadth of being non-viable simply due to it's members dying of old age. And to be honest the Republican party has so thoroughly embraced a lost cause White identity into the core of their politics, I'm not sure the republican party can actually form another viable coalition.

Progressives can chase the Asians into his arms or many others. People get older, progressive culture is unatractive right now...


People can start tunning out politics after basically 4 years of campaing year level intensity leading to a drop in the number of voters.

There are so many factors.

And to be honest the Republican party has so thoroughly embraced a lost cause White identity into the core of their politics,
The whole party said Republicanism is for white people only? Where and when?

What makes you sure the aimlessly witch hunting Democrats can balance all the groups they want to court?

[Draco Dracul]

George Bush for all his many, many faults didn't hold the country hostage over the boarder fence, actively worked to reach out to the Latino community, and had an actually attempt at genuine immigration reform.

You don't have to assign racist motivations because the utterly broken immigration system that leads to people by passing it is the direct result of over 130 years of racist policy. I mean for fucks sake the first ever immigration restriction was the overtly racist Chinese Exclusion Act that not only banned anyone from China coming for 10 years, but also prevented any Chinese person from even applying to US Citizenship. Prior to that the universal process for immigrating to the the United States was getting on a boat, horse, or train and coming into the United States.

You mean back when getting on a boat was quite expensive? Back when the US didn't have the massive social welfare system it has now? Half of all Italian migrants went back home if they didn't find work in the US. The chinese influx was dangerous. Not only because the US could not have absorbed the potential numbers of chinese that china's collapse was creating, the chinese government has always believed it was the rightful ruler of all chinese people no matter where they happened to be. Look at the turks in germany if you want to know how that could have worked.

One, if illegal immigrants can't find work they also return home, or at least south of the border. Notably migration across the US-Mexico border has been net negative for years at this point.

Two, people fleeing from a collapsing government are unlikely to listen to the government when it's separated by a vast ocean especially pre-modern communication.

Three, due to the use of juis soli ensuring that second generation immigrants always become citizens, and the fact that the US is a relatively young nation that's been in flux for much of that time the US has been far more successful at integrating immigrants that Europe has.

Four, the law wasn't even passed in response to the collapse of China as that was still almost 20 years away when the act was passed.

Progressives can chase the Asians into his arms or many others. People get older, progressive culture is unatractive right now...


People can start tunning out politics after basically 4 years of campaing year level intensity leading to a drop in the number of voters.

There are so many factors.

And to be honest the Republican party has so thoroughly embraced a lost cause White identity into the core of their politics,
The whole party said Republicanism is for white people only? Where and when?

What makes you sure the aimlessly witch hunting Democrats can balance all the groups they want to court?

In order:
The opposite has happened and the racially motivated politics of republicans have actually pushed the Asians into us. And even if we accept that as happening, the Asian population is small and tends to be in states where they are heavily outnumbered by other democratic demographics, like California.

People get older, but their politics largely stay the same.

While they may not be able to keep up the same numbers as during big rally years, the millennials will also be 4 years more settled and thus more likely to turn out during the midterms, there will be 4 more years of the iGeneration (who are even more left wing than the millennials) able to vote, and more republican voters will have traded their ballots for headstones.

The party we see now is the result of Nixon believing he could make a winning coalition by courting southern racists to create a block with the power of the solid south. This did however eventially almost completely destroy the Republican party in their historic stomping grounds like California, New York, and New England.

I don't think they can do so forever. I also don't think that a republican party that has fully embraced racism, and anti-intellectualism can grab either minorities or the college educated and that the republican party is in a position where they can't abandon either of those without facing total collapse.

[Karha of Honor]

George Bush for all his many, many faults didn't hold the country hostage over the boarder fence, actively worked to reach out to the Latino community, and had an actually attempt at genuine immigration reform.

You don't have to assign racist motivations because the utterly broken immigration system that leads to people by passing it is the direct result of over 130 years of racist policy. I mean for fucks sake the first ever immigration restriction was the overtly racist Chinese Exclusion Act that not only banned anyone from China coming for 10 years, but also prevented any Chinese person from even applying to US Citizenship. Prior to that the universal process for immigrating to the the United States was getting on a boat, horse, or train and coming into the United States.

You mean back when getting on a boat was quite expensive? Back when the US didn't have the massive social welfare system it has now? Half of all Italian migrants went back home if they didn't find work in the US. The chinese influx was dangerous. Not only because the US could not have absorbed the potential numbers of chinese that china's collapse was creating, the chinese government has always believed it was the rightful ruler of all chinese people no matter where they happened to be. Look at the turks in germany if you want to know how that could have worked.

One, if illegal immigrants can't find work they also return home, or at least south of the border. Notably migration across the US-Mexico border has been net negative for years at this point.

Two, people fleeing from a collapsing government are unlikely to listen to the government when it's separated by a vast ocean especially pre-modern communication.

Three, due to the use of juis soli ensuring that second generation immigrants always become citizens, and the fact that the US is a relatively young nation that's been in flux for much of that time the US has been far more successful at integrating immigrants that Europe has.

Four, the law wasn't even passed in response to the collapse of China as that was still almost 20 years away when the act was passed.

The US has no unique culture that is attractive to be integrated into if the 2019 progressivism dominates the power positions of society the way it does.

[Draco Dracul]

George Bush for all his many, many faults didn't hold the country hostage over the boarder fence, actively worked to reach out to the Latino community, and had an actually attempt at genuine immigration reform.

You don't have to assign racist motivations because the utterly broken immigration system that leads to people by passing it is the direct result of over 130 years of racist policy. I mean for fucks sake the first ever immigration restriction was the overtly racist Chinese Exclusion Act that not only banned anyone from China coming for 10 years, but also prevented any Chinese person from even applying to US Citizenship. Prior to that the universal process for immigrating to the the United States was getting on a boat, horse, or train and coming into the United States.

You mean back when getting on a boat was quite expensive? Back when the US didn't have the massive social welfare system it has now? Half of all Italian migrants went back home if they didn't find work in the US. The chinese influx was dangerous. Not only because the US could not have absorbed the potential numbers of chinese that china's collapse was creating, the chinese government has always believed it was the rightful ruler of all chinese people no matter where they happened to be. Look at the turks in germany if you want to know how that could have worked.

One, if illegal immigrants can't find work they also return home, or at least south of the border. Notably migration across the US-Mexico border has been net negative for years at this point.

Two, people fleeing from a collapsing government are unlikely to listen to the government when it's separated by a vast ocean especially pre-modern communication.

Three, due to the use of juis soli ensuring that second generation immigrants always become citizens, and the fact that the US is a relatively young nation that's been in flux for much of that time the US has been far more successful at integrating immigrants that Europe has.

Four, the law wasn't even passed in response to the collapse of China as that was still almost 20 years away when the act was passed.

The US has no unique culture that is attractive to be integrated into if the 2019 progressivism dominates the power positions of society the way it does.

The lack of a unique culture is one of the main reasons why integration has been been successful time and time again. Rather than trying to bash them into a mold, whatever parts of the assimilated culture are worth keeping will permeate the loose soup that is American Culture.

The emphasis of a strong, unique culture that you must fit a specific ideal lest you be deemed forever an outsider is a big reason why European countries have such a problem with large, insular cultural enclaves.

If you can be Turkish or German and are shunned by the one you don't pick, it's not surprising that you have large Turkish enclaves in German. If you can be Irish and American, then it's not surprising that you have a significant portion of Irish-Americans that are indistinguishable from other Americans beyond using it as an excuse for why they got so Drunk on March 17th.

[Karha of Honor]

In order:
The opposite has happened and the racially motivated politics of republicans have actually pushed the Asians into us. And even if we accept that as happening, the Asian population is small and tends to be in states where they are heavily outnumbered by other democratic demographics, like California.

People get older, but their politics largely stay the same.

While they may not be able to keep up the same numbers as during big rally years, the millennials will also be 4 years more settled and thus more likely to turn out during the midterms, there will be 4 more years of the iGeneration (who are even more left wing than the millennials) able to vote, and more republican voters will have traded their ballots for headstones.

The party we see now is the result of Nixon believing he could make a winning coalition by courting southern racists to create a block with the power of the solid south. This did however eventially almost completely destroy the Republican party in their historic stomping grounds like California, New York, and New England.

I don't think they can do so forever. I also don't think that a republican party that has fully embraced racism, and anti-intellectualism can grab either minorities or the college educated and that the republican party is in a position where they can't abandon either of those without facing total collapse.

Don't jumm all over a newly gained demographic, especially wiyh the levels of crazy the progressives are unleashing.

There are a lot of people movieng into Texas and other non blue states.

We have no idea how the people getting older and their politics will go...

How we consume information has radically changed. It gave us the Paul campaing, preceded by Nader and we ended up with a barely funded president.

Also don't bet on the turnout when trust in every institution is going down.

Last time i checked opinions were split on where the younglings will be going politicswise.

i accept your premise for the sake of the argument. It was a winning coalition that won a fuckton.

Republicans got togehter and said black people are animals? What are you talking about?

anti-intellectualism = demographics is destiny. Relax, the lections is really far away.

The US has no unique culture that is attractive to be integrated into if the 2019 progressivism dominates the power positions of society the way it does.

The lack of a unique culture is one of the main reasons why integration has been been successful time and time again. Rather than trying to bash them into a mold, whatever parts of the assimilated culture are worth keeping will permeate the loose soup that is American Culture.

The emphasis of a strong, unique culture that you must fit a specific ideal lest you be deemed forever an outsider is a big reason why European countries have such a problem with large, insular cultural enclaves.

If you can be Turkish or German and are shunned by the one you don't pick, it's not surprising that you have large Turkish enclaves in German. If you can be Irish and American, then it's not surprising that you have a significant portion of Irish-Americans that are indistinguishable from other Americans beyond using it as an excuse for why they got so Drunk on March 17th.
[/quote]

Yes it does, the US Constitution got copied by everyone.

Gun ownership Being the Second Amendment also makes it unique along with a thriving gun culture.

Certain cultural practices being illegal because of US law sounds like mold bashing into a mold to me.

Historically US culture was easier to fit in than almost all others.

You can be Irish and American in a superficial way but you cannot diverge as much as you wish to.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

George Bush for all his many, many faults didn't hold the country hostage over the boarder fence, actively worked to reach out to the Latino community, and had an actually attempt at genuine immigration reform.

You don't have to assign racist motivations because the utterly broken immigration system that leads to people by passing it is the direct result of over 130 years of racist policy. I mean for fucks sake the first ever immigration restriction was the overtly racist Chinese Exclusion Act that not only banned anyone from China coming for 10 years, but also prevented any Chinese person from even applying to US Citizenship. Prior to that the universal process for immigrating to the the United States was getting on a boat, horse, or train and coming into the United States.

You mean back when getting on a boat was quite expensive? Back when the US didn't have the massive social welfare system it has now? Half of all Italian migrants went back home if they didn't find work in the US. The chinese influx was dangerous. Not only because the US could not have absorbed the potential numbers of chinese that china's collapse was creating, the chinese government has always believed it was the rightful ruler of all chinese people no matter where they happened to be. Look at the turks in germany if you want to know how that could have worked.

Wasn't the restriction on Chinese immigrants right around the time of a conflict or something? I'm highly skeptical about it being for practical reasons.