DIS: “Will You Take My Hand?”

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm highly speculative on whether Orville has better writing than Discovery.

[clearspira]

Game of Thrones is written by qoute unqoute idiots now.

Still telling better stories that DIS is.

I would rather not rewatch the recent GOT seasons so i can reach a conclusion.

I think the tits and celebrity cast covered up for a lot of its failings in the early days which have only become more pronounced as the show has gone on. Its better that the Walking Dead though.

[Jonathan101]

I did hear sfdebris mention StarGate Universe. Mostly just lighting. So, he does know about SGU and how much it killed the StarGate franchise. SGU only had two seasons and I think Dis will follow. Does that mean he's may end up reviewing SGU? Because I think when he gets to the PE where the scientist fight the well armed and well trained Marines was one of the most boneheaded ideas ever put on TV or any show. Or at least one of the most one-sided fist fights ever.

I'm not sure that SGU "killed" StarGate. The other two SG shows had already wrapped up by the time SG:U came along and it was a surprise that they were making another one at all. Had it not been made then SG would have been finished anyway. It was intended to be a continuation (vs Dis which is a revival / prequel) and it failed, but SG would have been dead had it not come along regardless.

I think he likes SG:U better than Dis. The former didn't screw with canon as much and it holds up a bit better on repeat reviewing, plus it started to find it's feet later on. Dis still has a chance to do the same, but it has a different set of problems despite both having similar tones.

[Strejdaking]

I'd say better examples of Marty Stus would be Eragon or Richard Rahl. Neo is overpowered but he is still somewhat flawed, especially in the first movie but even int he sequels he makes mistakes or is outmatched or outthought at times.

Though I'd say that defining a Mary / Marty Sue as "too perfect" is an overgeneralisation; at least, there are broader definitions of the term than that. TV Tropes alone has about a dozen variations of the concept.

Another good example would be Golden Age and Silver Age Superman (by the standards of the day - they were often bigoted as heck by today's standards) as he had no flaws. Bronze Age onwards such as All Star Superman would start to explore and deconstruct what if means to be so outwardly perfect by adding far more humanity to him. They would then take it too far with New 52 Superman of course as he was a bit if a prick.

And whilst there are variations, I maintain that most at least have ''too perfect'' as a foundation.

This is actually a common misconception. Golden Age/Silver Age Superman wasn't really any less flawed than any other DC superhero. It's not as if Batman was the brooding Batdick he would become in late 80's. The one real difference was that rather than him just being good, him being reliably moral was a significant character trait (and a character being moral paragon doesn't make them Mary Sue) and his powers allowed him to do stuff most heroes couldn't (SA Green Lantern seriously just had "whatever the story needs" powers). But he was regularly put in peril by regular crooks and was if anything way more neurotic than other DC heroes.

Also, while Superman isn't perfect in All-Star-he can't even bring himself to tell his girlfriend that he's dying-I would say decontructing Superman and showing he isn't the ideal hero he seems and can't save everyone is the absolute last thing that story was trying to do. Not doing that is a big part of what made it stand out.

Okay, I just watched Chucks Review, right off the top of my head, I need to correct him about something.

When he quotes the X-men comic where he says Kitty Pryde retorted with the N word to a mutant racial slur, that never happened.

What DID happen was in God Loves, Man Kills, a kid in her dance class called her a mutant lover, and started a fist fight with her. When her black dance teacher interrupted and accused her of over-reacting, who also knows she's a mutant and is keeping her secret, she explodes saying "What if he had called me a N****R lover! Would you be so damn tolerant then?"

This was printed in 1981 by the way.

The teacher also ruminates that Kitty was right.

Sorry, as a life long x-men fan and someone that has all the stories from Phoenix Saga up to The Twelve collected, I had to step in and correct that.

Chuck is still awesome though.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. That scene did happen in another comic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/com ... _xmen_196/

Also, I don't see how a character in the story saying another character in the story saying it was right is somehow an argument for it as a storytelling decision.

[Makeshift Python]

Game of Thrones is written by qoute unqoute idiots now.

Still telling better stories that DIS is.

I was hoping someone would do better than Midnight’s Edge. Their comments about Netflix being unhappy because “Discovery does not adhere to Prime canon” sounds less credible and more like something they made up because it would play well to their audience. If Netflix is unhappy with Discovery I highly doubt it has anything to do with canon bullshit. Much like how they claim ENTERPRISE was cancelled just because the head of the studio hated Star Trek, rather than the obvious answer being deminishing returns (as we’ve seen ENT’s ratings fall drastically and never recover).

Granted, so much of their so called scoops have been labeled “rumors” under their own videos yet a lot of fans are using them as gospel. This is why I’d like to look for other sources that are less biased. It’s rather hard because ME has been the only ones making the claims.

There may be some truth on what you say, but there still no excuse for bad writing. And treating your fans like crap, all because of a rival show The Orville as most EXs that used to work on all the old Star Trek shows or now on The Orville having better stories and writing.

Having watched some of THE ORVILE, it’s really not hitting my sweet spot. It’s a cute homage to Berman Trek, but if I want a 90s style Trek I’ve got a lot of titles on Netflix that I could binge. DISCOVERY is heavily flawed though, and I hope it resolves those in time or else it goes the way of ENTERPRISE.

[Karha of Honor]

Game of Thrones is written by qoute unqoute idiots now.

Still telling better stories that DIS is.

I would rather not rewatch the recent GOT seasons so i can reach a conclusion.

I think the tits and celebrity cast covered up for a lot of its failings in the early days which have only become more pronounced as the show has gone on. Its better that the Walking Dead though.

I will try to remember the early seasons. Care to elaborate?

[Makeshift Python]

I don’t get how GOT is even brought up.

[clearspira]

Game of Thrones is written by qoute unqoute idiots now.

Still telling better stories that DIS is.

I would rather not rewatch the recent GOT seasons so i can reach a conclusion.

I think the tits and celebrity cast covered up for a lot of its failings in the early days which have only become more pronounced as the show has gone on. Its better that the Walking Dead though.

I will try to remember the early seasons. Care to elaborate?

Exactly what I said. I think it was a substandard show that managed to get people watching by having tits on screen at a time when that was still controversial and managed to disguise bad dialogue by the quality of the people they managed to hire. Even terrible script coming out of Sean Bean's mouth is going to sound awesome.
As for Walking Dead, its problem is that it kills too many main characters who still have potential scripts solely for shock value (Glenn and Andrea spring straight to mind) and it is extremely unvaried in its plot lines. They settle somewhere, they make an enemy, it gets destroyed, repeat. Alexandria is the only exception in that they rebuilt it (although it will probably also get destroyed one day).

[clearspira]

I don’t get how GOT is even brought up.

Nor do I, but it was. I like that about Chuck's forums, conversations evolve rather than remain stuck solely on one subject.

[satorukun0530]

Did anyone else notice Chuck mentioned The Expanse in his list of examples of dark modern sci-fi shows? Did this seem like a coincidence or a cute in-joke reference to next week's video series? Two examples woulda been fine, and The Expanse is much more obscure than Battlestar or anything in the Stargate franchise, both of which he's already talked about extensively on the show. If this wasn't an accident I thought it was really witty.

... First post!
I've been watching the show religiously since 2014, and on-and-off (all the TOS, TAS and TNG reviews, as well as most of the movie reviews and sometimes others) from 2011, but never got around to registering for the forums. Blip, if it had comments (I don't even remember...) didn't make me want to write any, and I wasn't around when SF Debris was on YouTube.