So, the cannibal Empress is getting her own series

[Enterprising]

Money does help with the poor writing. ENT and VOY would had been the same.

Of course money isn't everything, but at the very least it would have brought on more/better special effects, less bottle shows being required, and more higher profile guest stars brought in. So they would have been more fun/watchable if not necessarily better.

[Karha of Honor]

Money does help with the poor writing. ENT and VOY would had been the same.

Of course money isn't everything, but at the very least it would have brought on more/better special effects, less bottle shows being required, and more higher profile guest stars brought in. So they would have been more fun/watchable if not necessarily better.

Does not help, my bad.

[Independent George]

I have not watched Discovery, but my hesitation with the premise has nothing to do with Trek, and everything to do with drama and narrative.

Nebulous secret cabals only ever work as antagonists, because the entire appeal to them is how seemingly powerful they are. Drama depends on your protagonists being outmatched and in over their heads, and a secret organization allows even a powerful protagonist to chase shadows and always be one step behind without diminishing them.

The strength of that cabal lies in their secrecy and mystery; making them your primary POV has the problem of pulling away the veil which made them so appealing in the first place. The big dangers are (1) exposing way too much about the organization, killing the mystery, (2) nerfing them in order to create dramatic tension, and (3) making them too powerful and giving them too many resources, breaking the suspension of disbelief.

It can be done well by highlighting the tradeoffs that come with being a secret society - they are necessarily a much, much smaller organization that cannot withstand a direct confrontation, the constant risk of exposure, the left hand not knowing what the right is doing. To mix metaphors for a bit, a good spy drama is all about jiu-jitsu, but most television drama gravitates towards pro wrestling.

[Yukaphile]

Is it even possible to save Section 31 after the damage STID did? If you gave them a darker Men in Black treatment, perhaps, but... that would require some real talent on their part, that's just absent from the piss-poor crop of writers we got today. It's all about profit, nothing else.

[Yukaphile]

Well, we have all the power. The power to stay away and refuse to watch their shitty shows. I refuse to include anything from the reboot era and STD in my fanfiction, and I won't give a single red penny to them.

[Karha of Honor]

I have not watched Discovery, but my hesitation with the premise has nothing to do with Trek, and everything to do with drama and narrative.

Nebulous secret cabals only ever work as antagonists, because the entire appeal to them is how seemingly powerful they are. Drama depends on your protagonists being outmatched and in over their heads, and a secret organization allows even a powerful protagonist to chase shadows and always be one step behind without diminishing them.

The strength of that cabal lies in their secrecy and mystery; making them your primary POV has the problem of pulling away the veil which made them so appealing in the first place. The big dangers are (1) exposing way too much about the organization, killing the mystery, (2) nerfing them in order to create dramatic tension, and (3) making them too powerful and giving them too many resources, breaking the suspension of disbelief.

It can be done well by highlighting the tradeoffs that come with being a secret society - they are necessarily a much, much smaller organization that cannot withstand a direct confrontation, the constant risk of exposure, the left hand not knowing what the right is doing. To mix metaphors for a bit, a good spy drama is all about jiu-jitsu, but most television drama gravitates towards pro wrestling.

If they want to find the talent that can execute it, they will.

Is it even possible to save Section 31 after the damage STID did? If you gave them a darker Men in Black treatment, perhaps, but... that would require some real talent on their part, that's just absent from the piss-poor crop of writers we got today. It's all about profit, nothing else.

Is Kristen Beyer a bad writer? i enjoyed the one book i read of hers.

[Darth Wedgius]

I think they know people liked Captain Georgiou and know that people like drama like Game of Thrones and decided putting Georgiou (kind of) into occasionally brutal political-ish drama would be a good idea.

I freely admit that I've retrieved that guess from the deepest and darkest recesses of anatomy I'd rather not mention, and I hope I'm wrong.

[CharlesPhipps]

Mind you, Section 31 as a protagonist is just...

"Spy show in Star Trek."

[MissKittyFantastico]

Is it even possible to save Section 31 after the damage STID did?

Alternate universe, none of that need apply; even if you assume the average viewer won't really take into account the parallel universes notion, we're talking about Into Darkness - I doubt anybody's going to be up in arms if Star Trek 007 doesn't precisely tally with STID's lore.

Having mulled it over a couple of days, well, I guess I get how you (by which I mean CBS) arrive at this point - you get Michelle Yeoh, 'surprise' people by killing her off only to bring her back as Evil Michelle Yeoh, and then she mentions at the wrap party that her schedule's clear for a bit and she wouldn't mind coming back if you offer her lead billing on her own spinoff - who's going to say no? I guess I just hope they interpret the 'mirror' part of Mirror Georgiou liberally - in Disco, doing anything besides talking personally with Burnham, she came off like she was trying to grow a mustache so she could twirl it, that's going to get real tired real quick if she swans into every adventure with her Stupid Evil alignment like when all she has is a hammer every problem starts to look like Wilson Fisk's dad. But we know from DS9 that not everyone in the Mirrorverse is just evil. Have her moulded by her environment - she's always defaulted to killing others before they kill you because at the top of the Terran Empire they are trying to kill you, but that's not where she is now. Give her a couple of S31 crew who prove they're genuinely trustworthy, have a puppy adopt her in episode one and refuse to leave, it could be a good show watching her get introspective about who she's been and who she might have the chance to be in the future.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Mind you, Section 31 as a protagonist is just...

"Spy show in Star Trek."

Worked for Agents of Shield.