Weakest 2 Shepard ME 2 companions that can kill this 4 versions of the Punisher.

[Karha of Honor]

The 4 versions are, The Dolph Lungren, Thomas Jane, Netflix live action and the Punisher War Zone Ray Stevenson version.


All 4 get their most commonly used weapons, the companions can select from the most advanced gear from ME 2, DLC chjaracters also count.

Battle to the death, empty Amazon warehouse, starting 150 meters from one another, no prep time. Both groups working as a team.

Peak versions of the Punisher team and the ME team also at their Mass Effect 2 peak.

[MissKittyFantastico]

If memory serves Jack and Tali are the most vulnerable if assigned to the 'hold the line' portion of the Collector Base mission, which I guess is as good an indication of generic bullet storm survivability as any - but it doesn't matter, the tech imbalance is too great. Even using ridiculously generous assumptions, Team Punisher's weapons are not as good as ME1-era Alliance tech, and everyone from pukka militaries to the most pathetic blink gangbanger in the Traverse has upgraded to disposable sink weapons by ME2. There's no way to get around the conclusion that the entire galaxy has decided that bringing an ME1 gun to a firefight is a losing proposition every time - the guy with the pop-sinks will wear down your kinetic barriers before you wear down theirs - and the Punishers are using century and a half old antique firearms and don't have kinetics at all.

More realistically I feel there's an argument to be made that gunpowder weapons, no matter how advanced, don't have the hitting power or fire weight to bring down a barrier at all - Team Citadel could literally stand in the open and tank every bullet thrown at them without ever being in danger - and that's not even going into tech abilities, biotics, or just squeezing off one round from a Cain and walking away. Bottom line, if you show up without shields, you go home in a box.

[Nealithi]

If memory serves Jack and Tali are the most vulnerable if assigned to the 'hold the line' portion of the Collector Base mission, which I guess is as good an indication of generic bullet storm survivability as any - but it doesn't matter, the tech imbalance is too great. Even using ridiculously generous assumptions, Team Punisher's weapons are not as good as ME1-era Alliance tech, and everyone from pukka militaries to the most pathetic blink gangbanger in the Traverse has upgraded to disposable sink weapons by ME2. There's no way to get around the conclusion that the entire galaxy has decided that bringing an ME1 gun to a firefight is a losing proposition every time - the guy with the pop-sinks will wear down your kinetic barriers before you wear down theirs - and the Punishers are using century and a half old antique firearms and don't have kinetics at all.

More realistically I feel there's an argument to be made that gunpowder weapons, no matter how advanced, don't have the hitting power or fire weight to bring down a barrier at all - Team Citadel could literally stand in the open and tank every bullet thrown at them without ever being in danger - and that's not even going into tech abilities, biotics, or just squeezing off one round from a Cain and walking away. Bottom line, if you show up without shields, you go home in a box.

Okay so a scene in ME1 DLC Bringing Down the Sky has a civilian shoot Shepard once with a pistol and the mass effect field just stops the bullet so Shepard just looks amused. This is credence to your defense fields trump older guns. But how widely distributed were they? I ask because it seems like most foes and civilians you face just go down. No shield flicker, just gone. Indicating that level of protection is not all that common. If that is the case, can we be sure the shields utterly stop old fire arms? Basically if the armor is not that common then the firepower may not have climbed that significantly.

[Madner Kami]

Kinetic Barriers need Element Zero to function and EZo is costing a fuckton of money. It's hard to believe that just everyone can aford it at will.

[MissKittyFantastico]

I ask because it seems like most foes and civilians you face just go down. No shield flicker, just gone.

There are areas of gameplay/story segregation (not to mention gameplay/gameplay if you change difficulty levels, and story/pre-rendered cutscene story, if they forgot to read a memo; capital ships firing missiles and all that) - in an ideal world the codex would be gospel, but I feel like it's only fair to consider the actual experience of playing ME, as well as what may have been written in some sub-entry that, let's be honest, there were so many we all skipped our post-firefight reading and just went to talk to someone instead from time to time. (I'm kind of grateful my Cerberus Daily News character was a non-combatant and didn't have to deal with any of this.) But whatever the stated rationale and gameplay effects, the disposable sink upgrade happened, and everyone bought into it - clearly if you can get an ME2 gun instead of ME1, you do. But being in the wrong century Team Punisher don't, ergo even assuming equivalent shielding they're at the kind of disadvantage everyone in the galaxy has decided they can't afford to be at.

Kinetic Barriers need Element Zero to function and EZo is costing a fuckton of money. It's hard to believe that just everyone can aford it at will.

Guns need eezo too, and everyone's got those - it's expensive, but also a one-time manufacturing cost, not a consumable, and not that I can speak from personal experience but I imagine anyone expecting to get into a firefight is going to think it'd be worth saving up for. I don't know if it's specifically stated anywhere, but I'd be amazed if every credible military didn't build kinetics into standard armour for everyone who graduates boot camp; the Normandy crew at 'peak' certainly have them if they want them.

[Nealithi]

I ask because it seems like most foes and civilians you face just go down. No shield flicker, just gone.

There are areas of gameplay/story segregation (not to mention gameplay/gameplay if you change difficulty levels, and story/pre-rendered cutscene story, if they forgot to read a memo; capital ships firing missiles and all that) - in an ideal world the codex would be gospel, but I feel like it's only fair to consider the actual experience of playing ME, as well as what may have been written in some sub-entry that, let's be honest, there were so many we all skipped our post-firefight reading and just went to talk to someone instead from time to time. (I'm kind of grateful my Cerberus Daily News character was a non-combatant and didn't have to deal with any of this.) But whatever the stated rationale and gameplay effects, the disposable sink upgrade happened, and everyone bought into it - clearly if you can get an ME2 gun instead of ME1, you do. But being in the wrong century Team Punisher don't, ergo even assuming equivalent shielding they're at the kind of disadvantage everyone in the galaxy has decided they can't afford to be at.

Kinetic Barriers need Element Zero to function and EZo is costing a fuckton of money. It's hard to believe that just everyone can aford it at will.

Guns need eezo too, and everyone's got those - it's expensive, but also a one-time manufacturing cost, not a consumable, and not that I can speak from personal experience but I imagine anyone expecting to get into a firefight is going to think it'd be worth saving up for. I don't know if it's specifically stated anywhere, but I'd be amazed if every credible military didn't build kinetics into standard armour for everyone who graduates boot camp; the Normandy crew at 'peak' certainly have them if they want them.

Not at home so no access to the codex. So I have to ask, do any of them list muzzle velocities of standard assault rifles? I ask because a comparison would let us see that versus damage done. And compare to current weapons to see if they could drop a kinetic barrier. And vice versa could a bullet proof vest stop any ME rounds.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Not at home so no access to the codex. So I have to ask, do any of them list muzzle velocities of standard assault rifles?

Not that I'm aware of (but again, I roleplayed an escort, not a mercenary, so if there's some relevant factoid about guns buried in the codex somewhere it wasn't where I was looking anyway). I feel it's likely gunpowder weapons are obsolete in the accelerator/kinetic barrier age, but for the purposes of this exercise I think the solid argument is that Earth never suffered a back-to-the-stone-age nuclear war or anything between the present and the Citadel era, so the Punisher's guns aren't 'lost technology' or something, and we haven't run out of saltpetre or whatever - if the Alliance wanted to use chemical propellant guns, or even hyper-advanced versions of them they've been inventing for the past century and a half, they would. They use the same accelerator guns as everyone else - ergo, those guns are more likely to kill the other guy first. And drop-sink guns are better than those.

I mean there's probably some scenarios where Team Punisher could come out on top, if they try some kind of Hail Mary and it comes off - all things being equal they're certainly better gunfighters than most of Team Shep, maybe (what with Punisher being The Hero and therefore awesome at stuff) on a level with Shep and Samara-sans-biotics. But as Spock would say, all things are not equal.

[Nealithi]

Not at home so no access to the codex. So I have to ask, do any of them list muzzle velocities of standard assault rifles?

Not that I'm aware of (but again, I roleplayed an escort, not a mercenary, so if there's some relevant factoid about guns buried in the codex somewhere it wasn't where I was looking anyway). I feel it's likely gunpowder weapons are obsolete in the accelerator/kinetic barrier age, but for the purposes of this exercise I think the solid argument is that Earth never suffered a back-to-the-stone-age nuclear war or anything between the present and the Citadel era, so the Punisher's guns aren't 'lost technology' or something, and we haven't run out of saltpetre or whatever - if the Alliance wanted to use chemical propellant guns, or even hyper-advanced versions of them they've been inventing for the past century and a half, they would. They use the same accelerator guns as everyone else - ergo, those guns are more likely to kill the other guy first. And drop-sink guns are better than those.

I mean there's probably some scenarios where Team Punisher could come out on top, if they try some kind of Hail Mary and it comes off - all things being equal they're certainly better gunfighters than most of Team Shep, maybe (what with Punisher being The Hero and therefore awesome at stuff) on a level with Shep and Samara-sans-biotics. But as Spock would say, all things are not equal.

Well here's the thing. Old muzzle loaders were as deadly as modern weapons. You just had less shots and accuracy.
ME weaponry a fly wheel slices a tiny bit off a carbon block to make a needle like bullet giving a huge amount of bullets. I think there was a story from a krogan about a battle that took so long he actually ran out of ammunition. So the advantage in weaponry could 'just' be in the ammunition carried. One rifle will get you through quite a bit of combat. Now you can carry other things besides bullets. That does not mean they are necessarily deadlier however. Hence the comparison on damage. So am M-16 might hit as hard as an M-8 Avenger. But the m-16 has 30 rounds standard. And for the sake of argument the M-8 has 3000 rounds. Then everyone wants to carry the M-8. But an M-16 might still drop the mass effect field. Also since you mention these to be versions of the Punisher, expect the under barrel grenade launcher. The fight might be less one sided than it appears at a glance.

[MissKittyFantastico]

ME weaponry a fly wheel slices a tiny bit off a carbon block to make a needle like bullet giving a huge amount of bullets. I think there was a story from a krogan about a battle that took so long he actually ran out of ammunition. So the advantage in weaponry could 'just' be in the ammunition carried.

That's true (I've just been going on a little wiki walk through the weapons portion of the Codex) - I feel it's pretty likely accelerator rounds hit harder as well, but I don't know that (and if we're being honest, I don't know a lot about guns generally). That's why the drop-sink upgrade is so important to the exercise - however good ME1 guns are, nobody in the galaxy thinks they're worth keeping if you can get your hands on an ME2 gun. That combined with one side having kinetics and the other not - however good they may or may not be against any given gun, not having them can't possibly help.

Also since you mention these to be versions of the Punisher, expect the under barrel grenade launcher. The fight might be less one sided than it appears at a glance.

Granted, but Team Citadel's got plenty of specials as well. Even if we assume Jack and Tali can't just bring a Cain and end it in one very non-discriminate shot (you couldn't give teammates heavy weapons in ME2, could you? I forget - I was in it for the narrative, the FPS was just something I slogged through to get to the next conversation), they can throw tech attacks and singularities and stuff. And if their special skills means they're not 'the weakest', if you put up someone like Zaeed who's 'just' a standard human, we're back at the problem of equal (or at least same-ballpark) skill combatant with significantly better guns and shields.

[Nealithi]

ME weaponry a fly wheel slices a tiny bit off a carbon block to make a needle like bullet giving a huge amount of bullets. I think there was a story from a krogan about a battle that took so long he actually ran out of ammunition. So the advantage in weaponry could 'just' be in the ammunition carried.

That's true (I've just been going on a little wiki walk through the weapons portion of the Codex) - I feel it's pretty likely accelerator rounds hit harder as well, but I don't know that (and if we're being honest, I don't know a lot about guns generally). That's why the drop-sink upgrade is so important to the exercise - however good ME1 guns are, nobody in the galaxy thinks they're worth keeping if you can get your hands on an ME2 gun. That combined with one side having kinetics and the other not - however good they may or may not be against any given gun, not having them can't possibly help.

Also since you mention these to be versions of the Punisher, expect the under barrel grenade launcher. The fight might be less one sided than it appears at a glance.

Granted, but Team Citadel's got plenty of specials as well. Even if we assume Jack and Tali can't just bring a Cain and end it in one very non-discriminate shot (you couldn't give teammates heavy weapons in ME2, could you? I forget - I was in it for the narrative, the FPS was just something I slogged through to get to the next conversation), they can throw tech attacks and singularities and stuff. And if their special skills means they're not 'the weakest', if you put up someone like Zaeed who's 'just' a standard human, we're back at the problem of equal (or at least same-ballpark) skill combatant with significantly better guns and shields.

That is one of the questions I leave for others. Who is 'weakest' Jack could write her name on the walls with the other teams entrails and never touch a gun. Tali's tech attacks would probably not work since I recall most of them are messing with computers that the punisher team would not have. Then she prefers shotguns. So closer range. (I do not recall if you can hand heavy weapons either. Just noting preferred loadouts and ME guns seem to skip the under rifle options of older weapons.)
Part of the scenario of gymnasium and no cover means this is just both sides stand there and open fire. Many versions of the Punisher wear body armour. How effective will that be versus an ME weapon? Kevlar would suck. The accelerated rounds are slivers. Meaning like a knife blade so more likely to penetrate 'cloth' armor. Hard plate inserts would definitely help. If we assume the muzzle velocities are about the same. Then the Punisher team is likely slain and the ME crew wounded if not slain. My issue is the more I think on it. If an M-16 is equivalent of an M-8 then it will use most of its magazine dropping a shield. Then the target underneath is toast. But same token the Punisher team can't actually tank what it can dishout. So the M-8 should chew them up sooner than the shields drop.
This is almost like asking who would win. Two US marines from today versus four minute men. The minute men rifles can kill. But the marines would fire faster and just chew them up.
I am just not certain it would not be a wipe on both sides due to numbers versus firepower. 2 on 2 I side with ME crew 9 out of 10 times. 4 on 2 and I think it is a potential even match.