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Worffan101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:59 pm
But...but...ANTIFA! SCARY BLACK MEN!!!!!!!
In all seriousness, I'm not surprised.
Logically speaking, this statistic doesn't make Antifa any better.
Um, it does. They don't murder people. Ever. It makes them better than the right wing extremists.
Unless you mean "doesn't make them any better than previously thought", in which case, what the flipping kung pow penis does that have to do with anything?
I mean it does not make Antifa any better than if this statistic did not exist. My objection is that Worffan's "but... ANTIFA" seems to belittle concerns about Antifa when this statistic does not justify it.
Look at this logically. When people are concerned about cops shooting unarmed black people, others point out that black on black crime kills far more. But that doesn't make cops shooting unarmed black people less horrible in and of itself, does it?
Worffan wasn't really talking to ANTIFA's misjudged contemptibility, just about people that tend to balance their own side's extremist behavior with the other side's.
Worffan101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:59 pm
But...but...ANTIFA! SCARY BLACK MEN!!!!!!!
In all seriousness, I'm not surprised.
Logically speaking, this statistic doesn't make Antifa any better.
Um, it does. They don't murder people. Ever. It makes them better than the right wing extremists.
Unless you mean "doesn't make them any better than previously thought", in which case, what the flipping kung pow penis does that have to do with anything?
I mean it does not make Antifa any better than if this statistic did not exist. My objection is that Worffan's "but... ANTIFA" seems to belittle concerns about Antifa when this statistic does not justify it.
Look at this logically. When people are concerned about cops shooting unarmed black people, others point out that black on black crime kills far more. But that doesn't make cops shooting unarmed black people less horrible in and of itself, does it?
I think that's a false equivalence. Both criminal organizations that include black people and police officers kill black people, but the former typically do so in the context of organized crime disputes and the latter typically do so as a result of racial profiling and overly aggressive policing.
Antifa is typically used as a boogeyman by right-wingers seeking to deflect from right-wing violence and extremism, I could also have used "BUT RASHIDA TALIB! SHE USED IMPOLITE WORDS!!!" or something like that.
The main thing is that a bunch of idiots in ski masks going out to brawl with alt-right goons are only making themselves look like morons, whereas those alt-right goons frequently plan and execute mass murders and other hate crimes. This isn't a "we must remember that Antifa is bad too" kinda thing, because most people are not idiots and don't have a high opinion of ski-mask wearing idiots. This isn't a "Hey, guys, just because there's an obviously bad thing like organized crime doesn't mean we should let cops get away with murdering kids" situation. This is a "Right-wing organizations and lone wolves are planning and executing domestic terror attacks on a regular basis and our government is failing to stop them" situation.
Worffan101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:59 pm
But...but...ANTIFA! SCARY BLACK MEN!!!!!!!
In all seriousness, I'm not surprised.
Logically speaking, this statistic doesn't make Antifa any better.
Um, it does. They don't murder people. Ever. It makes them better than the right wing extremists.
Unless you mean "doesn't make them any better than previously thought", in which case, what the flipping kung pow penis does that have to do with anything?
I mean it does not make Antifa any better than if this statistic did not exist. My objection is that Worffan's "but... ANTIFA" seems to belittle concerns about Antifa when this statistic does not justify it.
Look at this logically. When people are concerned about cops shooting unarmed black people, others point out that black on black crime kills far more. But that doesn't make cops shooting unarmed black people less horrible in and of itself, does it?
I think that's a false equivalence. Both criminal organizations that include black people and police officers kill black people, but the former typically do so in the context of organized crime disputes and the latter typically do so as a result of racial profiling and overly aggressive policing.
Antifa is typically used as a boogeyman by right-wingers seeking to deflect from right-wing violence and extremism, I could also have used "BUT RASHIDA TALIB! SHE USED IMPOLITE WORDS!!!" or something like that.
The main thing is that a bunch of idiots in ski masks going out to brawl with alt-right goons are only making themselves look like morons, whereas those alt-right goons frequently plan and execute mass murders and other hate crimes. This isn't a "we must remember that Antifa is bad too" kinda thing, because most people are not idiots and don't have a high opinion of ski-mask wearing idiots. This isn't a "Hey, guys, just because there's an obviously bad thing like organized crime doesn't mean we should let cops get away with murdering kids" situation. This is a "Right-wing organizations and lone wolves are planning and executing domestic terror attacks on a regular basis and our government is failing to stop them" situation.
I don't think it's a false equivalence, but that'll be a matter of opinion. As long as you are not saying that Antifa should be given a pass, I think we're fine. I'm in agreement that Antifa should not be used as a reason to excuse right-wing violence.
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:58 am
So wait how is Antifa any better than these guys?
Because they don't murder people and these guys do. Now let's focus on the largely unaddressed and untreated epidemic of right-wing extremist violence in the USA, kay?
"Believe me, there’s nothing so terrible that someone won’t support it."
— Un Lun Dun, China Mieville
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:17 pm
Also let's not forget PC culture.
Far more relevant than 50 random dead people in giant country.
Minimizing murder, always a good debate tactic coming from people arguing in good faith and acting from the best of intentions.
I'm not sure. I understand women are the worst victims of war because (overwhelmingly male) soldiers killed just suffer the one time. I'd think similar logic would work with murder victims?
