Villains you would like to see portrayed in a Batman film

[Jonathan101]

Well, firstly, I was thinking of Robin Williams back from before TDKR was made, and ergo before Gotham came out- obviously Robin Williams can't play Strange today because Robin Williams is dead.

Secondly, it wouldn't be whitewashing because the character is white in the comics, and the fact than an Asian guy played him once doesn't change that.

Thirdly, I'm sure Nolan could have made Riddler work. It's not hard to do a gritty, down to Earth take on a character like that; heck someone even made a fan short that was meant to be set in the Nolan-verse a while back that did indeed have Riddler as the villain (along with Scarface).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_ioQP1 ... gs=pl%2Cwn

Also, apparently Leonardo DiCaprio was originally going to be in TDKR and he WAS going to be the Riddler, but plans changed later on, so there you go.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

If he's white then he's white, he seems Asian in most stuff I see, I'm not using Gotham as a precedent. Whether he's alive or dead doesn't change that, I'm not sure why you felt compelled to emphasize that so much.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Anyways I wasn't much at all trying to argue that Robin Williams can't play Strange, or that Gotham invented him as a character. I thought he was Asian before Gotham and just thought it was funny to do a casting call in such fashion.

As far as the Riddler, there's obviously not much of a case that Nolan couldn't make it work. Though I just don't personally having a fun time imagining what he'd do with him. And in fairness that's partly to do with his rendition being transformative to the point that you don't see it coming in the first place. In Batman lore his agenda isn't particularly poetic. His backstory is, but it's mostly just fun seeing him be an over exaggerated fatal nuisance. I mean, what do you think of Scarecrow in those movies? Comparing how he was written to Two Face or Talia or Catwoman.

[Jonathan101]

Gotham is literally the only version I can think of where he's Asian.

Scarecrow not being the best written character is more to do with Nolan and Goyer not really being too interested in the lore and it's a flaw in their writing (honestly, Talia, Dent and Selina weren't much better). I'm sure Scarecrow and Riddler could have been better written had they put their minds to it, but that isn't the direction they chose to go in. It's a symptom of the issues with these three films in general- Nolan seemed less interested in making good Batman movies than he did in making good movies that happened to have Batman in them.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I was being kinda haphazard with my selection of characters, but that raises the question of what characters Nolan nailed. Obviously Joker (though some people have reserves about how he was written), but then again I like Bruce Wayne and think Gordon had a nice touch.

[Nessus]

Characters that Nolan did well IMO: Gordon, Bruce Wayne, Catwoman/Selina, Alfred, Joker, Harvey/TwoFace, Ras Al-Gul.

Some of those diverge from their previous versions, but in ways I feel worked well. In particular, I like the added characterization given to Alfred, and was pleased when Gotham based their version on it, considering his heavier role in that series.

You could make a case for Ras being whitewashed as a strike against him, but Neeson rocked it with his performance hard enough for me to let that slide in kinda the same way I let Khan being portrayed by a Spaniard slide.

A lot of the ones Nolan did badly IMO were more a case of "half right, half wrong" where the "right" was actually really good, but "wrong" was wrong in a VERY distracting way.

Scarecrow felt wasted, like they didn't really understand the character or get his appeal and so didn't really try. He got changed and downplayed in a lot of discordant ways that added up to him being shallow and blah.

Bane had moments where he was legitimately intimidating ("Do you feel in charge?") but was undercut by a lot of apparently unintentional goofiness and a weak story. And yeah: the sound mixing on his voice was a technical shitshow, both before and after the changes.

Talia, like Scarecrow, felt kinda wasted. In this case they were clearly wanting to do something deeper with her than Scarecrow, at least, but making her into a final act twist reveal limited their ability to give her the on-screen development they'd need to make her really good/interesting, so she ends up fizzling in the execution.

Robin Williams as a Burton Riddler makes a lot of sense to me. Seems like it'd be peas in a pod with the Nicholson Joker, stylistically. NPH as the Riddler I can't see at all, and that fan poster is so many kinds of wanky wrong at once it hurts my eyes.

Conceptually I really like the Arkhamverse Riddler. Conceptually. On a gameplay level he was rubbish, and I have kind of a hard time seeing him be much better in a movie. The Gotham version is cartoony, but good. Wasn't on board with him at first, but he grew on me as a long-form ground-up origin story rather than a Riddler as-is.

Casting for the Riddler is hard to pin down because IMO he has a lot more stylistic variability than many of the others. Who's the right person to play him changes in my mind depending on what version of the character and what style the movie would be going for.

I suppose my pick for Strange would be Ben Kingsley, but that's a low hanging fruit choice, and I haven't thought about it much. He's not a character I'm well versed in, but I can see the appeal if done well.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

That first sentence kinda anchors a lot, but 90% of that post I completely agreed with. Actually I did love all those characters...

But, I'm not sure how NPH can't do Riddler. I might be undermining the character, again, but NPH gets the nuisance aspect down to a T. That poster as a Nolan projection makes me want to throw up, but I don't technically get what he's missing.

Don't discount Assault on Arkham for Arkhamverse Riddler gameplay. His antics in that were just a bit more tasteful. Really though there's a reason you don't have to hear much of him in New Game + in the games.

Ben Kingsley sounds great, though I feel like I'd go with Vincent D'onofrio off the heels of Daredevil. Benedict Cumberbatch putting on weight would transition nicely from the MCU movies. Tim Curry could probably be propped for it.

[Jonathan101]

Tim Curry is actually in pretty bad shape these days...

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Tim Curry is actually in pretty bad shape these days...

Well sorrrrrrrry. I just thought he was doing a good job with Young Justice given that that is him in Season 3.

Surely WB could afford the personal trainers to get him into superhero shape.

edit: But really there's probably a not more than awesome choice than him. And I'm talking about Curry toning the Curry down a bit and just letting the dramatics play itself out.

edit2: Hell he doesn't even have to get in shape to do it.

edit3: looks like he's not in season 3

[Jonathan101]

No, I mean he's 72 and in a wheelchair after suffering a stroke a few years back.