DIS: “Will You Take My Hand?”

[Makeshift Python]

Funnily, BTS the dramatic reason for assimilating Picard was because Piller felt there needed to be a figure for the characters to interact with rather than just a shot of the cube interior and a bunch of voices modulated in unison.

Huh. Now that would explain things. You got a source for that?

The character of Locutus was created as a result of the writing staff of Star Trek: The Next Generation feeling it necessary for the Borg to have a spokesman, which the writing staffers referred to as a "queen bee." (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages)

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Locutus_of_Borg

[Madner Kami]

Heh, thanks.

[BunBun299]

I like the Queen in First Contact and Dark Frontier. Not so much in Unimatrix Zero or Endgame.

I like to think there are multiple models of Queens, activated according to the Collective's needs at the moment. Seven of Nine might have eventually become another model of Queen if she hadn't left again at the end of Dark Frontier.

[Yukaphile]

Created a thread on this topic.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2619&p=35839#p35839

The Queen is a complete contradiction to the Borg, though. She may "say" she's not the leader, but she's written as one, because it's an action movie, and dumb action movies need a central villain. An enemy like the Borg with their original conceit is too intelligent for most mainstream Americans who watch dumb action movies - like the Michael Bay Transformers films. Need I go on?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The issue I find with the queen is that I don't know where her cynical tones and slightly animated dialect or mannerisms. But that's always been the case with Data. Parts of just how he reacts to things has always come off too fleshy to me.

Anyways it's not hard to imagine the queen just being a representation of an otherwise deeper software or hardware operation that correlates better to whatever directive will is choosing to do things with the federation. They probably aren't able to get the drones to speak with their implants they put into people. Though I may be complicating that when the humanoids should be able to speak and interpret messages adequately somehow.

[Yukaphile]

Except that's not even what the movie implies, given how she's written to be pissed off at Picard for rejecting her in a stereotypical "spurned lover" way.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Except that's not even what the movie implies, given how she's written to be pissed off at Picard for rejecting her in a stereotypical "spurned lover" way.

Well that's a possibility, but the Borg doesn't really dance, it boogies. They might have only made the queen because Picard rejecting it in the first place. It rerouted its directive given its assessment of the whole thing when they learned that abducting the person to speak to them exacerbates things.

[Asvarduil]

...

JJverse Trek is morally hollow?

I don't think it is.

And it does not have Space Hitlerina giving orders to Starfleet.

At leasat Berman and Braga were doing episdic stuff so if they fucked up it was more conatined.

Slash - sorry for the delay in noticing this post.

First..."JJverse Trek is morally holllow." I generally stand by that statement, and I'm going to stand by it by talking about the JJverse Trek that runs against that statement.

I liked Star Trek: Beyond, because it was about the conflict between humanity's baser instincts, specifically conquest and combat, and our nobler instincts, including exploration and cooperation, especially of beings that are decidedly not like us. Of the JJverse Treks, Beyond in my opinion is the best, because I can clearly say what it's about. Side-note: it also helps that it balances the action with character development, some minor humor, and little technobabble.

I can't really tell you what the first two movies are about, at least from a 'moral of the story' standpoint (the moral of Star Trek 2009 seems to be, "Kirk is a dick"). Unfortunately, this is why Beyond in my perception is the outlier, and is why I say that JJverse Trek is morally hollow.

Further - since we're now six episodes into Season 2, I want to take a moment to say that, I think they're turning the show around. First, they're de-emphasizing Burnham a little in favor of the other characters. Christopher Pike is a great captain, and giving other bridge officers like Odolwe some screen-time is a great touch. What's more, giving the show a better sense of adventure - trying to figure out what the Red Angel is, as well as unravel the energy flares across the galaxy - is doing much to make the show feel better by far than Season 1.

It's still got the occasional plot hole, sprinkles of technobabble, and other flaws, but the quality is a marked improvement from Season 1.

[Karha of Honor]

...

JJverse Trek is morally hollow?

I don't think it is.

And it does not have Space Hitlerina giving orders to Starfleet.

At leasat Berman and Braga were doing episdic stuff so if they fucked up it was more conatined.

Slash - sorry for the delay in noticing this post.

First..."JJverse Trek is morally holllow." I generally stand by that statement, and I'm going to stand by it by talking about the JJverse Trek that runs against that statement.

I liked Star Trek: Beyond, because it was about the conflict between humanity's baser instincts, specifically conquest and combat, and our nobler instincts, including exploration and cooperation, especially of beings that are decidedly not like us. Of the JJverse Treks, Beyond in my opinion is the best, because I can clearly say what it's about. Side-note: it also helps that it balances the action with character development, some minor humor, and little technobabble.

I can't really tell you what the first two movies are about, at least from a 'moral of the story' standpoint (the moral of Star Trek 2009 seems to be, "Kirk is a dick"). Unfortunately, this is why Beyond in my perception is the outlier, and is why I say that JJverse Trek is morally hollow.

Further - since we're now six episodes into Season 2, I want to take a moment to say that, I think they're turning the show around. First, they're de-emphasizing Burnham a little in favor of the other characters. Christopher Pike is a great captain, and giving other bridge officers like Odolwe some screen-time is a great touch. What's more, giving the show a better sense of adventure - trying to figure out what the Red Angel is, as well as unravel the energy flares across the galaxy - is doing much to make the show feel better by far than Season 1.

It's still got the occasional plot hole, sprinkles of technobabble, and other flaws, but the quality is a marked improvement from Season 1.

Why isn't Into Darkness an outlier?

[Admiral X]

He literally just explained.

I can't really tell you what the first two movies are about, at least from a 'moral of the story' standpoint (the moral of Star Trek 2009 seems to be, "Kirk is a dick"). Unfortunately, this is why Beyond in my perception is the outlier, and is why I say that JJverse Trek is morally hollow.