Star Trek Discovery season 2 megathread

[Admiral X]

Given that every other talking-point he's raised is straight out of the alt-right playbook,

What, that a word isn't exclusively theirs?

and he implied that his claim of being a Native American means he can't be alt-right, I feel that in this case it's a valid argument to make.

It's rather difficult to be a white nationalist when one is Native. It's also difficult to be an authoritarian when one is libertarian. But you are caught up in the idea of anyone who disagrees with you being a member of the alt-right, so you have made up your mind about both my race and my politics. Be careful that you don't go the way of Arkle.

I'm sick and tired of Slash, Admiral X, and their ilk.

I have ilk now. I really doubt Slash is alt-right either, as he has also never expressed any white nationalist sentiments, nor argued in favor of monarchy or authoritarianism.

Those goddamn alt-right arguments of "It's all teh wimminz and SJWs feminizing men with soybeans!" and similar such bullshit are the #1 reason why it's impossible to have a conversation about any SFF-related topic anymore without it degenerating into pointless dick-waving about whether or not women should be allowed to be in movies and whether or not alt-right slurs are in fact alt-right slurs.

I fucking hate alternative facts.

The problem is that you keep pushing alternative facts yourself. If you hadn't insisted on ranting about how a very old insult is exclusively "alt-right," I wouldn't have bothered saying anything myself. But members of the regressive left cannot help themselves, it seems. Everything has to be about social justice with them, and whoever they've decided "the other" is. Reminds me a lot of the worst kind of Christians who have to make everything about their view of religion and who they view the sinners as.

Why the fuck does you "believing" that Elizabeth Warren is Native American (she isn't, IIRC she has a Native ancestor way back or something, and Twitler made a big hullabaloo about it because Donald Trump is a fucking race-baiting moron) matter here?

You're basically the Trump in this case.

My point is that since it's impossible to verify X's ethnic background or tribal membership, he's refused to provide any evidence,

Yeah, I'm not going to expose my tribe to harassment from sanctimonious white people who are angry that I don't think or act the way they think I should, just to score a few points on some internet argument. Just look at how members of the regressive left treat black conservatives.

and he's spouting the same tired alt-right alternative facts, believing him is like believing Donald Trump when that orange twit claims that his hands are really very large and his inauguration crowd was the biggest ever.

Wow, I really triggered the fuck out of you by pointing out a word is from the middle ages, huh?

[Admiral X]

Many? most? on the left use "alt-right" as a synonym for 'white nationalist'.

They are though. I've seen interviews by that guy who's basically famous for getting punched in the face and he has come right out and said he wants a white ethnostate ruled by a monarchy, hence my statements to that effect.

[Worffan101]

The /self-identified/ alt-right fall into three main groups: Actual neo-Nazis and Klansmen/"white nationalists", idiot racist conspiracy-mongers (these tend to be slightly more Islamophobic than the neo-Nazis but soft pro-israel because Israel likes to shit on brown people, too), and MRAs (including the "incel" death cult). Representatives of these loosely-defined branches include Richard Spencer, Paul Joseph "Soyboy" Watson, and rape blogger Roosh V (as in, he brags about date-raping people), respectively.

As for Kurtzman, he's never shown any talent or creativity outside of lazily ripping off other movies and even his own "work", I absolutely believe that he legitimately thinks that he'll convince leftists to watch his shitty show if he just puts in enough social-justice points, and because he's a mouth-breathing idiot who makes Trump look smart by comparison, Kurtzman thinks that what leftists want is for the Evul Straight White Guy to be treated as a mindless caricature and killed off in a lame attempt at redshirt comedy.

Kurtzman continues to surprise me with his ability to breathe without fatally injuring himself, let's put it that way.

[Madner Kami]

How are MRAs by default alt-right? Last time I checked, that particular movement is a hodgepodge of rather wild political affiliation, which is mostly "united" by pointing out that "The Patriarchy" is not a thing and that there are men issues that need to be adressed and not ignored and laughed away. Sure, there are extremists and idiots in that group, as there always are, but that doesn't say anything about the group as a whole, as there are plenty of people who do not condone what the more extreme fringes do and say.

[clearspira]

How are MRAs by default alt-right? Last time I checked, that particular movement is a hodgepodge of rather wild political affiliation, which is mostly "united" by pointing out that "The Patriarchy" is not a thing and that there are men issues that need to be adressed and not ignored and laughed away. Sure, there are extremists and idiots in that group, as there always are, but that doesn't say anything about the group as a whole, as there are plenty of people who do not condone what the more extreme fringes do and say.

His use of the word INCEL immediately afterwards is very telling. Like ''Alt-right,'' he is using catch-all buzzwords that do not hold up to scrutiny. INvoluntary CELIbate, i.e. assholes with virgin rage who cannot accept that women want nothing to do with them are not the same as people with legitamate or imagined greivances with how men are treated. You can have a wife and kids and be an MRA just fine.

[Worffan101]

How are MRAs by default alt-right? Last time I checked, that particular movement is a hodgepodge of rather wild political affiliation, which is mostly "united" by pointing out that "The Patriarchy" is not a thing and that there are men issues that need to be adressed and not ignored and laughed away. Sure, there are extremists and idiots in that group, as there always are, but that doesn't say anything about the group as a whole, as there are plenty of people who do not condone what the more extreme fringes do and say.

MRAs--and I'm using the term SOLELY for self-identified MRAs, pick-up artists, and incels--are a largely right-wing or "libertarian" (in that they want to be able to use offensive words without being called rude dicks for it) group who believe, laughably, that modern society is anti-male (which is like saying Nazi Germany was pro-Jewish). The incel subculture specifically is a batshit insane death cult that refers to women as "femoids" "foids" or "Stacies", holds that it is the right of all men to be fucked by any woman they want whenever they want, and obsesses over made-up numbers to justify their perverse hatred of all women for not kneeling to suck dick on demand.

People who are genuinely concerned about male issues (such as the massive underreporting of rapes by male victims, the insane stigma of "unmasculinity" attached to male victims, the corruption of hardline radfems who hold that men are inherently evil, etc.) tend to identify with the feminist movement to some extent and typically refuse to associate with or identify with MRAs.

This isn't a "both sides" issue. These are very clearly-defined, self-identified groups of hateful bigots who engage in organized and lone-wolf campaigns of disinformation and harassment on the Internet and real life. Not to mention the actual fucking terrorist attacks that incels, white supremacists, and other alt-right types have conducted (Pittsburgh, Charlottesville, the Kansas bomb plot, Dylan Roof, Elliot Rodger, that incel creep who did that terrorist attack in Canada, etc.).

[MixedDrops]

Anyway with the obvious troll on my filter list, I can probably try to get back to this thread.

Spira, Worf said MRAs "includes" incels, which is perfectly accurate (and is basically the same thing as what you said). I want to believe you are trying to engage in good faith, but it doesn't help that you constantly misread what other people are saying.

And I guess it's fair not to simply describe MRAs as alt-right by default, but I think that's about as useful as, say, arguing that people who talked about "states rights" in the 1940s were not necessarily racists. In the case of MRAs, the notion that their goal is only "men's rights" has always been dubious when so many of the actions by the general movement is not to address problems men have, but to deny problems women have/blame feminist for the problems they have (and focusing so much on a dislike of women as an extension). I have seen groups like, say, The Good Men Project not do stuff like that and instead try to actually talk about problems men have, but the irony is that almost every group I know like that have basically divorced themselves from the term "MRA" because they don't feel it has any positive connotations anymore.

For MRAs themselves that still believe that their movement isn't largely a hate group, is what you "feel" about your innermost beliefs more important than what the movement as a whole might be doing, in a practical sense?

As far as how that relates to Discovery- I don't see how the "stupid jerk character gets comeuppance" trope should be seen as something political when you have the same show showing clear reverence for how awesome the new White guy captain is (Pike). It's just lazy writing. Once again people are injecting dumb political shit where "it's bad writing" suffices just as well. Also, Episode 1 wasn't even written by Kurtzman.

[Worffan101]

As far as how that relates to Discovery- I don't see how the "stupid jerk character gets comeuppance" trope should be seen as something political when you have the same show showing clear reverence for how awesome the new White guy captain is (Pike). It's just lazy writing. Once again people are injecting dumb political shit where "it's bad writing" suffices just as well. Also, Episode 1 wasn't even written by Kurtzman.

Leaving the rest of your post (which I agree with) aside, I DO think that there was an attempt by the writers' room to inject politics into the redshirting to score cheap social justice points (because I guess they think social justice works on a points system).

Pike is also shown to be an affable, competent, experienced individual, and is the one character here who old-school fans will immediately know and expect to be "respected", hence the positive portrayal. To counter for doing that for the new white character, I believe the writers and Kurtzman (who directed) thought, they needed to kill off an asshole white guy to show how awesome Burnham is, even though we already HAD a whole season about how Michael Burnham is simply the most glorious creature ever to grace us with her presence.

It is both lazy and shitty writing, and politically motivated, because they lack the competence, work ethic, and basic decency to give us a good product.

[Makeshift Python]

Don't be this way, dude. Just don't. Don't be a fucking stereotype.

Connolly's arc, if you can call it that, is shitty lazy writing and only encourages the alt-right. It's also, as I said, shitty writing, and makes the viewer wonder why Pike even has this incompetent jackass on his ship.

He's only there because Alex Kurtzman, an idiot who only knows how to write self-centered frat boys, thinks that if if he has a white guy act like a smug dick for no reason, then get humiliated in a failed joke and killed for DARING to defy The Great Michael Burnham's superior wisdom and inherently superior intellect, he'll win social-justice points. Which...isn't how it works.

[clearspira]

Don't be this way, dude. Just don't. Don't be a fucking stereotype.

Connolly's arc, if you can call it that, is shitty lazy writing and only encourages the alt-right. It's also, as I said, shitty writing, and makes the viewer wonder why Pike even has this incompetent jackass on his ship.

He's only there because Alex Kurtzman, an idiot who only knows how to write self-centered frat boys, thinks that if if he has a white guy act like a smug dick for no reason, then get humiliated in a failed joke and killed for DARING to defy The Great Michael Burnham's superior wisdom and inherently superior intellect, he'll win social-justice points. Which...isn't how it works.

I didn't understand that gif the first time you used it and I still don't.