The issues of Human centric stories in Sci-Fi and Fantasy works

[Thanotos Omega]

[quote

Wait I don't get why this is.

One of the little lies media tells us is that it wasn't everyone who was bad, or even most, it's used to avoid reminding the masses their ancestors were evil, it's why the hero of a western will always either not come into conflict with race or will be shockingly forward thinking with everyone looking down on the bigots, it's the lie about how most slave owners weren't completely horrible and treated their slaves like family, it's a comforting way to make the masses feel better about turning a blind eye to injustice,

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

[quote

Wait I don't get why this is.

One of the little lies media tells us is that it wasn't everyone who was bad, or even most, it's used to avoid reminding the masses their ancestors were evil, it's why the hero of a western will always either not come into conflict with race or will be shockingly forward thinking with everyone looking down on the bigots, it's the lie about how most slave owners weren't completely horrible and treated their slaves like family, it's a comforting way to make the masses feel better about turning a blind eye to injustice,

Still not following. Sci-Fi convention doesn't aim to say that not all people were bad, just that given a considerable lack of a certain level of complicity, people aren't really defined by such atrocities. And that's not even the focused narrative.

Also, Star Wars protagonists were a metaphor for Vietnam while the Empire was a metaphor for American imperialism. At least that's true as far as America, I'm not sure Luke and Leia are direct allegories for Communist Vietnam.

[Darth Wedgius]

Non humans by default become allegory to otherness, just like no matter how much he didn't want them to Tolkien's orcs became allegory for non europeans ect, you cannot escape this you cannot prevent this, you must work with it

Sorry, but those are just your impressions. Writers don't have to cater to them. However, you are free to create your own stories that follow your opinions and sensibilities.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'd personally appreciate it if you could give a trail that lists the particular elements of star wars that leads to a justified whatever.

Implications of ethnocentrism are fascinating to me, but it can get quite loaded.

[Actarus]

All fictional races in sci-fi or fantasy are a reflection on our humanity, its psyche, its qualities and faults. Because they are all human creations. It makes no difference if the focus is put on humans, orcs, vulcans or twi'leks. Most sci-fi is also a reflection on what humanity could become, for better or for worse. So it is normal that the focus would be put on humans. Star Trek, for exemple, is more soft sci-fi, more interested in sociology than hard science and technology. It's all about humanity succeeding in overcoming poverty, diseases, war and ignorance and which becomes the champion of cooperation between the peoples of the galaxy.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

All fictional races in sci-fi or fantasy are a reflection on our humanity, its psyche, its qualities and faults. Because they are all human creations. It makes no difference if the focus is put on humans, orcs, vulcans or twi'leks. Most sci-fi is also a reflection on what humanity could become, for better or for worse. So it is normal that the focus would be put on humans. Star Trek, for exemple, is more soft sci-fi, more interested in sociology than hard science and technology. It's all about humanity succeeding in overcoming poverty, diseases, war and ignorance and which becomes the champion of cooperation between the peoples of the galaxy.

But Thenatos is saying that human-centric stories results in enforced white hegemony when considering the broad implications of the allegorical landscape. I think(?)

[Actarus]

Non humans by default become allegory to otherness, just like no matter how much he didn't want them to Tolkien's orcs became allegory for non europeans ect, you cannot escape this you cannot prevent this, you must work with it, because in the end if any sentient species in your work is treated badly it will become allegory for some group of real world humans, heck that's probably why STD went so far in on trying to make the Klingons look inhuman, of course they botched that to heck, you cannot escape that your work is a part of the whole of humanity, i don't think BioWare intended to make the elves come off like they did, but that's what happened because they didn't treat elves like individuals they treated them like a mass of identical individuals and now they run a very real risk of killing their second biggest franchise if they don't tread carefully,

Orcs represents all the evil in humanity. They are fallen beings, the lowest of the lowest you can get. Just like Elves represents the best in us. They are mostly what humanity would have been if it had not fallen, according to chrsitian beliefs. They are beautiful, immortal, do not fall ill, are highly skilled and have a strong bond with nature that Adam and Eve (and their children) lost when they commited the original sin. If they are allegories, they are moral allegories.

Non-Europeans are already represented in LotR. They are the Easterlings, Variags and Southrons from Harad and Far-Harad, who sided with Sauron, and the Woses who helped the riders of Rohan. Men of the West are also shown supporting Sauron and Saruman: Black Numenorians, the pirates of Umbar and Dunlendings. Except the Black Numenorians, all Men allied with Sauron are shown to have been duped by him and shown mercy after the war. It's still a bit patronizing, but hey, Tolkien was born at the end of the XIXth century afterall.

However, I agree with you that in most other works, monsters and aliens are often used to represent "the other". It is to be expected when the novels, tv shows and movies are made by Westerners for Westerners (primarily). It all depends on how "the other" is treated. And nowadays, more often than not, the other is shown in a sympathetic way. Even bordering the ridicule. Heck, we even have children shows with gentle vampires. Imagine that... Gentle, blood-sucking undead humans.

[Antiboyscout]

Heck, we even have children shows with gentle vampires. Imagine that... Gentle, blood-sucking undead humans.

even odder in current year considering vampires often symbolize aristocrats in fiction.

[Fianna]

I'm not sure where anyone's getting the idea that Orcs represent non-Europeans. If they represent any particular real life group in The Lord of the Rings, it'd be urban and industrialized English people, in contrast to hobbits representing rural village English people.

[Thanotos Omega]

@Actrus I know, but my point is that because his description of the orcs boiled down to Mongolian Arabs it leads to that as a result of the fact that again anyone who is different will become a stand in for generic otherness, they will fill in for any group not explicitly shown as being with the heroes, it's why the whole concept of always chaotic evil is wrong, and even great works can fall into this, look at the amazing books of R.A. Salvator, he didn't mean it but it's very easy to read Drow Society as being against Black Women, or again the Elves from Dragon Age, you have to treat all your races/species with the same respect or you get unfortunate implications,