VOY - Retrospect

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Said experts can't even agree on said document, so that just makes me feel all the more vindicated.

Well everything just has to be about you now doesn't it?

[Yukaphile]

My perspective is the only one I have, being a creature of limited, singular dimensions, but I'm not blind to the pain of abuse victims and the struggle in coming forward and how hard it is for them to be believed. I just think ultimately in that anonymous text the ultimate message is very dis-empowering for women and abuse victims. I don't like that. So I'm glad it's probably not real.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

My perspective is the only one I have, being a creature of limited, singular dimensions, but I'm not blind to the pain of abuse victims and the struggle in coming forward and how hard it is for them to be believed. I just think ultimately in that anonymous text the ultimate message is very dis-empowering for women and abuse victims. I don't like that. So I'm glad it's probably not real.

Well just to disclose because you keep bringing this up, I don't find myself caring much about the specific circumstance. Again deferring back to what was said about experts and randos, it's the same difference as far as your vindication. You were actually speculating about that as your own consciousness surrounding the matter is involved, but it's more a matter of how it's involved more than where it's at for whatever reason. Like, is it exacerbating the issue or not for one thing. Beyond that, I'm telling you that it's just kinda on you to fixate on it or not.

[Darmani]

I liked this episode for riling us up and yanking g the rug. Complete with whitest statement ever.
Its not don't believe victims
Its don't politocise or jump to conclusions or make investigations about the persons nut the incidents

The guy is hateable and suspicious and does run.
In sh training I was told don't question unless I am an investigator
Hell we see how nice welling intentioned coaching veers things

We see how a valid incident got blown up and 7 did not get healing but used to jump a hateable target who wasnt a smoking blonde

[Yukaphile]

@BridgeConsoleMasher Well, does it help to say I believed Henry Ford? Also, does this count as derailing the thread? Should we stop?

@Darmani That's another thing. Just running does not equal guilt. Hell, look at Garibaldi over on B5 - and he clearly had good reason to, given the woman in charge, er... well, he obviously had reason to doubt the justice system.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I liked this episode for riling us up and yanking g the rug. Complete with whitest statement ever.
Its not don't believe victims
Its don't politocise or jump to conclusions or make investigations about the persons nut the incidents

Oh yeah I think we are actually up on that lol. But it also it was brought up in the video that this episode holds up distasteful in light of more current events.

@BridgeConsoleMasher Well, does it help to say I believed Henry Ford? Also, does this count as derailing the thread? Should we stop?

What I said last pretty much stands here. The main message is how disbelieving exacerbates the matter, especially since you're not technically qualified or directly involved in the matter. If you're spouting out on twitter what a liar they are or exhibiting unqualified evidence, then you likely involving yourself indirectly and exacerbating the condition.

[Yukaphile]

What if I'm right, though, and that anonymous text was inaccurate? Not even written for a malicious reason, mind - just one that's not true to the reality?

Whatever. This topic is getting tiring.

I wanna drop this before the thread REALLY goes off the rails.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

What if I'm right, though, and that anonymous text was inaccurate? Not even written for a malicious reason, mind - just one that's not true to the reality?

Then nobody was listening to you anyway lol (involvement). And in lieu of your hypothetical, you could be wrong (qualification), hence risk of doing something bad.

Whatever. This topic is getting tiring.

I wanna drop this before the thread REALLY goes off the rails.

signed sealed delivered

[9ansean]

A number of people have defend Retrospect on the ground that those offended don't get the intended analogue. Well having read quite a few other reviews I can honestly say the real issue is that the analogue is handled very badly. Without context the plot bears little resemblance to satanic abuse panics that got the whole forgotten memory concept discredited for several reasons.

First Kovin is not implied to be part of a cult or conspiracy. He is not the target of sensational media or an opportunistic attorney. He's simple treated with suspicion by a few and is not really denied an impartial hearing. There is no suggestion that his world has a rigid justice system like the Cardassians. We're just suppose to believe they'll ruin him for even being accused. That doesn't make a lick of sense and goes a long way toward why this reads more like an apologia for predators. What the hell kind of society that willing sells WMD’s to outsiders is so hung up on propriety that won’t work with anyone is even alleged to have done something criminal?

[9ansean]

The second problem is the EMH doesn't act like the therapist who reported forgotten memories in the McMartin case after repeatedly asking children leading question with intended answers in mind and even rewarded them for it. The Doctor merely comes off the a self-trained quack with no profession training in therapy who admits to merely improvising and most ultimately on up to self-righteous hubris. The reviewer on FanFare felt this takes a series subject and trivializes it. "Sure, you don't want your characters to do something so bad that they're basically irredeemable--by the same token, Wesley Crusher didn't really drink and drive the starship, just got the space virus--but if you're going to let people off the hook that easily, why bother?"

Finally (and this is where I get pissed) Seven is not a child who is easily prone to suggestion despite her lack of adult interaction and the writers sometimes making her seem more childlike in certain episodes than others. What's unquestionable is that she is a child abuse victim. We clearly saw in Raven that her assimilation left lasting scars. Piccard was assimilated as adult and with the Borg for far less time and even he showed PSTD in Family and First Contact.Rick Bergman has even compared assimilation to rape in describing Picard's ordeal. Compared to his action in STFC, Seven's demand that Kovin get justice seems pretty minor, and yet we're supposed to believe she's being too extreme because the evidence can't confirm she wasn't actually violated?

Even if her anger is aimed at the wrong person, it can only be very real. Especially given it wouldn't just remind her of life altering trauma, but that anyone could still do this her in the future (which is even assuming it didn't happen for real this time)!