What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

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MithrandirOlorin
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Re: What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

Post by MithrandirOlorin »

http://jaredmithrandirolorin.blogspot.c ... quels.html

Way back in April of 2015, when I optimistic about the prospect of Disney making Star Wars movies, I made a post called Why I Like Prequels. Where I explained that I like Prequels more then Sequels because Prequels don't have the option of doing the most shocking thing possible just for shock value.

Now here we are in a post The Last Jedi world and I've looked back on that post and realized
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A Star Wars Sequel has become a perfect embodiment of why I felt that way. With the main praise it gets from it's fans being "it subverted expectations" and yet plenty have shown how that doesn't make something good. I did two Blog posts about that.

Subverting Expectations is not a substitute for actual creativity.

When Subverting Expectations becomes totally Expected.

But this YouTube video explains things better then I could.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiXk6mEM_tU
How To Subvert Expectations Correctly (Last Jedi/Infinity War Analysis).

I don't want to keep making posts about how much I dislike The Last Jedi, since I don't want to become what I hate, as someone who spent over a decade being frustrated by Prequel haters who just couldn't let it go. But I do want to make clear why I don't fit into your little stereotypes about the kinds of people who hate The Last Jedi.

Three years ago, in October of 2015, before The Force Awakens came out, I made a post called If Rey isn't a Jedi I will be let down. In fact I felt that if an Episode VII-IX Trilogy is ever made the new Jedi in training should be a Woman before the Disney buy out even happened. I'm an Anime fan who mostly loves Anime about Female heroes, from Magical Girls to Girls With Guns. I want a Gundam series where a teenage girl is put in the Amuro Ray role. Nausicaa of The Valley of The Wind is my favorite Anime Movie because it does Rey's story arc better then either Abrams or Johnson have. I've even decided to start calling Project A-Ko my favorite Superman movie. Buffy The Vampire Slayer was my favorite TV show for a long time, now my favorite Western TV show is Pretty Little Liars. I was also into Xena a long time ago.

I'm the last person on the Internet who's gonna dislike a movie because it put a Woman in a traditionally male Action Hero role. If I only see two movies in 2019, one of them will probably be Battle Angel Alita.

A few months ago at about the same time two people made videos about how people should stop complaining about Plot Holes so much. And the basic premise of both I totally agree with. But a number of details I disagree with, mainly their both defending the Holdo and Poe story-line.

My problem with that part of the film is not that I think it's a Plot Hole. I have such a negative view of the Military that I can totally buy a General or Admiral would be that stupid. My issue with this story-line is it's moral.

First of all, if you're actually going to defend Holdo. I'm not saying she needed to tell Poe the plan, the issue is the refusal to assure him there was a plan, which any smart general should know is vital to assure people of to uphold morale. If she'd said, "we have a plan but there are security concerns so it's being kept on a need to know basis", they could have still done the rest of the story-line, with Poe being offended at not being trusted and maybe convincing himself shes lying about there being a plan. That would make the narrative that this was about his male Ego much more believable.

My problem however is the moral in the end was very pro Authoritarian since it comes down as saying Holdo was 100% right and Poe 100% wrong. Am I saying I wanted it to take the exact opposite stance? No! People keep saying they want this new Trilogy to be more nuanced, so how about they are both wrong? You can still have your shocking moment where Leia shoots Poe, but then have her also scold Holdo also. And it's still being Feminist since you'd have it be Leia to set everything right.

Too many people on both sides think there is something Feminist about the decision to fully take Holdo's side. But I know my take on all this would be the same if you switched their Genders, it's TheMarySue.com people who would be saying the opposite if the narrative condemned a female Ace Pilot who just saved the fleet for daring to question a male authority figure who blatantly disrespected her.

The truth is, the film didn't care about the moral implications of any of this, they just thought it'd be fun to have a Mutiny within our Rebel alliance since that worked so often on the BSG remake. My issue with this storyline's execution is that Male or Female I don't ever want Star Wars taking a Pro-Authoritarian stance.

There is plenty I liked about this movie, I just showed how a few tweaks would make me more fine with the Holdo story-line. The Score was great, the Cinematography was great, the acting was pretty good. And you'll certainly never see me agreeing with the anti-Bathos arguments. But the obsession with Subverting things for the sake it ruined all of that.

I will certainly give this movie more credit then most Prequel Haters ever give those movies which I Love.

And that leads us to the final straw-man, TLJ Haters are just blinded by Nostalgia. And maybe I'd be more willing to concede this one since again I'm self aware of my own risk of becoming what I hate in this regard. The problem is, why was this reasoning to not like new SW movies never really brought up till TLJ? What bugs me is this excuse for why people don't like TLJ being thrown around by people who hate on the Prequels like Patrick Williams. Do you think SW fans weren't old enough to start getting like that yet in the Prequel era? Well guess what my age right now is close to that of a 77 SW fan in 99. I'm someone who's SW Nostalgia is for the Prequels not the OT.

I'm someone who has a history of being fine with the new installments of things I'm Nostalgic for. Batman and Pokemon are far more important to me then any SW films have ever been. And I've defended Snyder's take on Batman as well Pokemon I Chose You. And while some Batman material has pissed me off, none have done so in a way that lingers with me like The Last Jedi.

I will watch Episode IX when it comes out, in theaters if I can. I've invested too much of my life into the concept of Star Wars some day being a Trilogy of Trilogies to not be there when the Skywalker Saga ends. But that will probably be the last time for a long time I see a Star Wars film theatrically unless some drastic change happens.

I will try to keep this the last time I talk about SW on this blog till we start getting real news about Episode IX. And even then I will try to just speculate on that up coming movie and not think about my dislike of TLJ.
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Draco Dracul
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Re: What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

Post by Draco Dracul »

MithrandirOlorin wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:16 pm http://jaredmithrandirolorin.blogspot.c ... quels.html

Way back in April of 2015, when I optimistic about the prospect of Disney making Star Wars movies, I made a post called Why I Like Prequels. Where I explained that I like Prequels more then Sequels because Prequels don't have the option of doing the most shocking thing possible just for shock value.
Really? Because I don't know what else you could call having Anakin Skywalker commit mass murder years before his fall to the dark side.
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MithrandirOlorin
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Re: What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

Post by MithrandirOlorin »

I didn't say nothing would be a surprise. M point is they didn't have the option of killing off Obi-Wan half way through.

And I think everything they did with Anakin fit perfectly, he's not the only character to kill Sand people without much regards for their personhood.
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Re: What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

Post by TheOneTrueJack »

No doubt a controversial opinion given some of the views on this forum but... it's my favorite Star Wars movie. I adore it.
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Re: What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

Post by Karha of Honor »

Draco Dracul wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:46 pm
MithrandirOlorin wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:16 pm http://jaredmithrandirolorin.blogspot.c ... quels.html

Way back in April of 2015, when I optimistic about the prospect of Disney making Star Wars movies, I made a post called Why I Like Prequels. Where I explained that I like Prequels more then Sequels because Prequels don't have the option of doing the most shocking thing possible just for shock value.
Really? Because I don't know what else you could call having Anakin Skywalker commit mass murder years before his fall to the dark side.
It kinda made sense for the plot and it's not like the massacre was shot like some Rob Zombie blood and guts stuff.
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Re: What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

Post by Draco Dracul »

Slash Gallagher wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:10 pm
Draco Dracul wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:46 pm
MithrandirOlorin wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:16 pm http://jaredmithrandirolorin.blogspot.c ... quels.html

Way back in April of 2015, when I optimistic about the prospect of Disney making Star Wars movies, I made a post called Why I Like Prequels. Where I explained that I like Prequels more then Sequels because Prequels don't have the option of doing the most shocking thing possible just for shock value.
Really? Because I don't know what else you could call having Anakin Skywalker commit mass murder years before his fall to the dark side.
It kinda made sense for the plot and it's not like the massacre was shot like some Rob Zombie blood and guts stuff.
No it doesn't, it fundamentally undermines Anakin as a character because he's not a good man that fell to darkness, he's an evil man that stopped pretending.
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Karha of Honor
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Re: What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

Post by Karha of Honor »

Draco Dracul wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:51 pm
Slash Gallagher wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:10 pm
Draco Dracul wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:46 pm
MithrandirOlorin wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:16 pm http://jaredmithrandirolorin.blogspot.c ... quels.html

Way back in April of 2015, when I optimistic about the prospect of Disney making Star Wars movies, I made a post called Why I Like Prequels. Where I explained that I like Prequels more then Sequels because Prequels don't have the option of doing the most shocking thing possible just for shock value.
Really? Because I don't know what else you could call having Anakin Skywalker commit mass murder years before his fall to the dark side.
It kinda made sense for the plot and it's not like the massacre was shot like some Rob Zombie blood and guts stuff.
No it doesn't, it fundamentally undermines Anakin as a character because he's not a good man that fell to darkness, he's an evil man that stopped pretending.
Stopped pretending? He fought in the Clone Wars as a good guy.
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Re: What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

Post by Yukaphile »

The worst part is that he shows no remorse, no guilt over what he's done. His only regret, it seems, is that he wishes he could do it all over again. He would have been so much more human if he had. Instead, he's wangsty. Like Emo Peter times a billion. And I generally like the prequels, but in novelization form. The movies were just poorly executed and the atrocious dialogue didn't help. Matt Stover's Revenge of the Sith was a slam-dunk victory for the prequels.
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Re: What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

Post by Jonathan101 »

I mean, he broke down in tears and could barely spit out what he did- I wouldn't say he showed no guilt or remorse over the action. I'd say he just suppresses that guilt with anger and denial.

Yes, he goes on to rant about how much he hates them, but that's his complicated emotions at play. We are talking about a character who has literally been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder by professional psychologists; even if that diagnosis doesn't exist in-universe, it's pretty clear he's a guy with intense emotions and mood swings.

So, no, I don't agree that he didn't feel guilty about what he did. I think he just feels powerful, contradictory emotions.
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Re: What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

Post by Yukaphile »

He spat that "I HATE THEM!" and said, "I'm a Jedi, I should be better than this..." which yeah, he should. That's not deep or complex, that's psychotic.

I rest my case. That as presented Anakin is a completely evil dipshit.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
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