VOY - Retrospect

[Yukaphile]

And OJ was guilty, let's be clear. The fact he was acquitted does not automatically mean he's innocent either. As SF Debris constantly jokes.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

And OJ was guilty, let's be clear. The fact he was acquitted does not automatically mean he's innocent either. As SF Debris constantly jokes.

Yes, not innocent imo. Just unable to be charged by the state. I mean, given that he did do it and didn't go to prison for it. It seems to be the consensus that he did, but f if I know.

[pilight]

re: OJ

Not sure how you reach the conclusion that he's guilty. They had no murder weapon, no fingerprints, no witnesses to the crime, no witnesses who could place him at the scene of the crime. He had no prior criminal record. And there was the fundamental problem of a 50 year old man who's had 17 surgeries on his knees supposedly knifing to death two fit, aerobicised, age 30-ish people without either of them running away, calling for help, or fighting back enough to put a single scratch on him.

Add in cops who can't follow even the most basic rules of evidence handling, some of whom harbor racial animus (even Marcia Clark said Fuhrman planted the glove after the case), and it's a wonder they even went to trial.

[Darmani]

Re: Deuterium
I assume they lost the manufacturing capabilities due to engineering crisis.

Also its like saying Gold. They know they mean this purity, composition, and etc. But just say the word. I assume shit got so bad they need to collect some in "accessible" and easy to work formats for whatever onboard shop facilities, as to any routine supple at a starbase that likely has warehouses of the stuff and can replenish it in a gif

Afterall they have a hydrobonics bay but often trading for spices, foodstuffs, and more.

[9ansean]

Is getting a tissue sample taken without your consent really such a traumatic experience? I mean, when a mosquito bites me and flies off with some of my blood, I can't say I feel violated by it.

Mosquito's don't tend to shoot you, strap you down, and then alter you'r memory after having bit you.

If you don't buy the rape analogy then it's more the actions Viddiian organ harvesting. (actually I was somewhat amused when Janeway said that we need to act fast because naneprobes can be weaponized. Made wonder if she would have tougher in Phage is they can make a bomb out of a lung).

In all seriousness perhaps the forcibly removing of some kind of medical implant would be more precise. In that sense I can easily see parallels to exploiting a person with both a physical and mental disability here. Physical in the scene she’s always depended on the nanoprobes and mental in the supposedly unreliable nature of her memories.

Whether this has lasting trauma depends entirely on the individual. No can predict or decide how one comes out of a life threatening or demoralizing situation. If you've been there before and are still feeling the effect even an illusion can be triggering. That's why I find it insulting given Seven's history that the cause of supposed 'false memory' is presented as unimportant. It's like if Tasha was suddenly thrown into a recreation of those slums filled with rape gangs she ran from and after being just as quickly returned, demand to who did this and why, and was only told, "Hey it wasn't real this time so what's the big deal."

[Madner Kami]

Re: Deuterium
I assume they lost the manufacturing capabilities due to engineering crisis.

What engineering crisis? Look, "creating" Deuterium is really easy. I can do that in my cellar-room without much effort, by simply taking tap-water, hydrogen sulphide, a couple of tubes, drain bottles and a number of heating elements that can raise the temperature of the solution to just above ~130°C/266°F.

The process of gaining heavy water is essentially a slightly more complex destillation-process in which you take simple water, heat it up to ~20°C/68°F, filter it through hydrogen sulphide and then distill it at 130°C/266°F (the boiling temperature of heavy water). Once you've done that, all you need to do in order to get Deuterium out of the heavy water is, to electrolyze the destilled heavy water. The hardest part of all of that is, to get enough hydrogen sulphide (we fart it out on a regular basis, but it's probably more easy to gather it from decomposing bio garbage) and the energy for both heating and the (heavy) water electrolysis and then scale it up in order to meet consumption-needs. Literally, none of that is rocket science.

[Fianna]

I'm wondering, did they ever do an episode where Seven experiences regular (non-regeneration pod) sleep for the first time since she was a kid? 'Cause it would kinda make sense if the memory the Doctor took her through was just a dream she had, but neither she nor the Doctor have enough experience with dreaming to know the difference.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm wondering, did they ever do an episode where Seven experiences regular (non-regeneration pod) sleep for the first time since she was a kid? 'Cause it would kinda make sense if the memory the Doctor took her through was just a dream she had, but neither she nor the Doctor have enough experience with dreaming to know the difference.

I think it's encapsulated with what we've got in the episode. Seven's had a lot of experience injecting nanoprobes into people. The doctor is inexperienced with the concept of dreams altogether, so it makes sense that he wouldn't compile factors of data together. Her "dream" involved the guy who assaulted her infiltrating her cranial cyborg biology and injecting it unto another. It meshes together not unlike how I understand dreams to work. She used to take part in assimilating people, she had an incident with the guy, that conjoined to manifest as a false memory.

[Enterprising]

Re: Deuterium
I assume they lost the manufacturing capabilities due to engineering crisis.

Also its like saying Gold. They know they mean this purity, composition, and etc. But just say the word. I assume shit got so bad they need to collect some in "accessible" and easy to work formats for whatever onboard shop facilities, as to any routine supple at a starbase that likely has warehouses of the stuff and can replenish it in a gif

Afterall they have a hydrobonics bay but often trading for spices, foodstuffs, and more.

Hence why I highlighted as bad writing, it's not the job of the viewer to make up or assume these sort of things in their mind to fill in the gaps. It's the writer's job to ensure problems like this are both explained and easy enough to understand them, in a way that does the story proper justice and structure.

[Deledrius]

I think part of the mistake of this episode (and it probably coincides with Chuck's identification of the focus placed on the wrong protagonist) is that the story puts too much emphasis on being a mystery. By leaving so much up to interpretation it directs the viewer to the question of truth in the competing stories instead of the danger of unintentional memory fabrication via amateur/malicious questioning and its consequences. It also leaves the viewer to fill in the blanks, and the story leaves enough ambiguous for us to bring our own preconceptions to the story completely divorced from whatever intent the teleplay authors had.

There are a lot of good topics they could have touched on with this premise, but they left it vague enough that it becomes a lot of stories all at once, and not all of those are going to align with the less ambiguous ending, causing a potential dissonance. That's often a danger with allegory: finding just the right balance of details.