What is Your Opinion on The Last Jedi?

[Draco Dracul]

He fought the CSA, that doesn't in itself make him a good guy any more that Stalin was a good man because he fought the Nazis.

Anakin's conduct during the CW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Red Army.

Within the context of the films we can't assume that. After all prior to the clone wars he had already engaged in the mass slaughter of children and one of the few actions we seem him undertake during the clone wars is the murder of a POW.

We saw him be heroic in the Clone Wars plenty in both the EU and the animated series.
We saw plenty of Anakin in the CW besides that one incident. I think that is the CW series Geonosis arc?

And none of that heroism is in the movies.

It is and only the movies count?

Well, how have we seen him be heroic? See, in something like Stover's novel, I could buy he was a hero, given how well it was written, but... other cases, not so much.

Uhh, Clone Wars...

Considering how many complaints I've seen about how TLJ didn't explain every little minute detail, and how the new EU only exists to fill in backstory, then yes only the films count.

[Karha of Honor]

He fought the CSA, that doesn't in itself make him a good guy any more that Stalin was a good man because he fought the Nazis.

Anakin's conduct during the CW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Red Army.

Within the context of the films we can't assume that. After all prior to the clone wars he had already engaged in the mass slaughter of children and one of the few actions we seem him undertake during the clone wars is the murder of a POW.

We saw him be heroic in the Clone Wars plenty in both the EU and the animated series.
We saw plenty of Anakin in the CW besides that one incident. I think that is the CW series Geonosis arc?

And none of that heroism is in the movies.

It is and only the movies count?

Well, how have we seen him be heroic? See, in something like Stover's novel, I could buy he was a hero, given how well it was written, but... other cases, not so much.

Uhh, Clone Wars...

Considering how many complaints I've seen about how TLJ didn't explain every little minute detail, and how the new EU only exists to fill in backstory, then yes only the films count.

Murder a POW is from the movie? You mean Dooku?

[Yukaphile]

The book made it even worse. He begged Palpatine for his life, which they wanted to be included in the movie that Christopher Lee shot down because it'd look "undignified," and Palpatine threw it back in his face. He was clearly no threat. It'd be like if Luke HAD killed his father in Return of the Jedi.

[Karha of Honor]

The book made it even worse. He begged Palpatine for his life, which they wanted to be included in the movie that Christopher Lee shot down because it'd look "undignified," and Palpatine threw it back in his face. He was clearly no threat. It'd be like if Luke HAD killed his father in Return of the Jedi.

That waas at the end. We saw heroic Anakin, in the movies, canon stufff and Legends stuff.

[Draco Dracul]

The book made it even worse. He begged Palpatine for his life, which they wanted to be included in the movie that Christopher Lee shot down because it'd look "undignified," and Palpatine threw it back in his face. He was clearly no threat. It'd be like if Luke HAD killed his father in Return of the Jedi.

That waas at the end. We saw heroic Anakin, in the movies, canon stufff and Legends stuff.

We really don't see heroic Anakin in the films after he's 9, and that along with the lack of any real relationship with Obi-Wan is one of the major failings of the PT.

[Karha of Honor]

The book made it even worse. He begged Palpatine for his life, which they wanted to be included in the movie that Christopher Lee shot down because it'd look "undignified," and Palpatine threw it back in his face. He was clearly no threat. It'd be like if Luke HAD killed his father in Return of the Jedi.

That waas at the end. We saw heroic Anakin, in the movies, canon stufff and Legends stuff.

We really don't see heroic Anakin in the films after he's 9, and that along with the lack of any real relationship with Obi-Wan is one of the major failings of the PT.

Geonosis Anakin...

What would real relationship mean in your eyes? This is a big budget space fairy tale.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The book made it even worse. He begged Palpatine for his life, which they wanted to be included in the movie that Christopher Lee shot down because it'd look "undignified," and Palpatine threw it back in his face. He was clearly no threat. It'd be like if Luke HAD killed his father in Return of the Jedi.

That waas at the end. We saw heroic Anakin, in the movies, canon stufff and Legends stuff.

We really don't see heroic Anakin in the films after he's 9, and that along with the lack of any real relationship with Obi-Wan is one of the major failings of the PT.

That's pretty interesting. Narratively speaking I don't have a problem with not seeing him be heroic or him having an endearing relationship with Obi-Wan, but yeah it's not really focused on. I'm not so sure it wasn't deliberate to some conscious extent by Lucas as it seems he was just focusing on other things, and I guess I'm fine being told without being shown. As Jedis I can watch the stories like I'm watching Mulder and Scully, just people doing their job in an ongoing effort to help keep things in order. And also just knowing that they've been working together since Anakin was 9 up until the point that he's Darth Vader suggests that they did develop some sort of endearing kinship.

[Yukaphile]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tN0RuRSp0o

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Luke is not Kreia. They wanted to create a bitter old hermit, they could create their own. That Mark Hamill himself had issues with it should speak volumes to their egocentrism and arrogance in their "let's make money at all costs!" approach. It's beyond me how anyone could defend this movie given its blatant disregard to the lore and characters involved. Also, is it true that it kind of hit the same beat and points as Empire Strikes Back? I read that on TV Tropes.

It's the Same, Now It Sucks!: For all the talk about the movie's "freshness" and subverting some expectations, such as by employing The Un-Reveal, some feel that the movie's relationship with The Empire Strikes Back ends up being pretty similar to that of the The Force Awakens with A New Hope, essentially a soft remake. The movie hits all of the major plot points The Empire Strikes Back did: Stern Chase, a group of the main characters going to a different planet where they find a charismatic rogue who ultimately betrays them, Jedi training (where the trainee goes to a place filled with The Dark Side to confront themselves), the reveal of the protagonist's parents by the Darth Vader Clone Big Bad done in a way meant to be deliberately shocking,note in the case of TLJ, deliberately averting the expected Luke, I Am Your Father, a cliffhanger ending where the heroes are in a weak situation but still have hope, etc. Additionally, TESB was a major Wham Episode back in the day that employed many Shocking Swerves; TLJ does the exact same thing, only by subverting a different set of expectations based on the standards set by TESB and the other movies in the saga. This hasn't gone unnoticed by critics, and some fans.

[Karha of Honor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tN0RuRSp0o

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Luke is not Kreia. They wanted to create a bitter old hermit, they could create their own. That Mark Hamill himself had issues with it should speak volumes to their egocentrism and arrogance in their "let's make money at all costs!" approach. It's beyond me how anyone could defend this movie given its blatant disregard to the lore and characters involved. Also, is it true that it kind of hit the same beat and points as Empire Strikes Back? I read that on TV Tropes.

Money? They did it for the critical praise... Not money.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I say they did it for the prestige.