DS9: Business as Usual

[Meushell]

The fact he's done good still doesn't mean they are obligated to help him.

I see it more as... they pressured him to do good, and he refused. They pressured him harder, and he gave in and did some good. But "doing good" has consequences in Ferengi society. Quark knew that, which is part of why he resisted. The Feds didn't know that, they just assumed he was being a jerk. But their ignorance of Ferengi society doesn't change the fact that they repeatedly pressured Quark into doing self-harm.

I would say that they have *some* responsibility for the consequences that came down on Quark (not 100%, obviously), and it's in their own best interests to ensure that the people who align themselves with the Federation come out on top, as winners.

He doesn’t pay rent for his space, or for the energy he uses. Since Rom left, he now gets free repairs too. That means 100% prophet on some, perhaps most, of his food and drinks, and on his holosuites. When the Ferengi turned on him, they gave him the means to start over. I think they give him enough.

[Yukaphile]

Like what? Settled with his striking employees, to name one example? I need remind you that while Sisko put pressure on Quark, the only thing that really stopped the strike was Brunt's arrival. Other than that, Quark tried to bribe Rom - he didn't acquiesce to their demands, and only did so secretly. Sir Will's contention that Quark is greedy is absolutely truth, but at the same time, I think there's a bit of grey area in that Quark is pushed into a situation where he could be desperate enough, and that I don't think Gaila's associates typically were in the business of genocide - it was just their luck they got the Regent as a customer. I see their work as more selling weapons to people like those who became al Qaeda or ISIS rather than the Hitlers and Stalins of planets, or people like the Bajoran rebels, legitimately fighting for their freedom or to throw off an oppressive system. There is grey there, to be sure - except when you get someone so clearly insane like the Regent is, which Quark could spot, and so did what any decent person with a conscience did: He tanked the deal.

[Cheerilee]

He doesn’t pay rent for his space, or for the energy he uses. Since Rom left, he now gets free repairs too. That means 100% prophet on some, perhaps most, of his food and drinks, and on his holosuites. When the Ferengi turned on him, they gave him the means to start over. I think they give him enough.

Quark put his life on the line, putting his one bar up as collateral to three different lenders, to get seed money to try and play the stock market, when he really isn't the type to take on personal risks like that.

I don't know what his profits and expenses are, but it seems evident that whatever perks the Federation gave him were not enough to offset the loss of his Ferengi business connections.

[Meushell]

He doesn’t pay rent for his space, or for the energy he uses. Since Rom left, he now gets free repairs too. That means 100% prophet on some, perhaps most, of his food and drinks, and on his holosuites. When the Ferengi turned on him, they gave him the means to start over. I think they give him enough.

Quark put his life on the line, putting his one bar up as collateral to three different lenders, to get seed money to try and play the stock market, when he really isn't the type to take on personal risks like that.

I don't know what his profits and expenses are, but it seems evident that whatever perks the Federation gave him were not enough to offset the loss of his Ferengi business connections.

Or he doesn’t have the lobes he thinks he does. His losses seem to be outside the bar. Quark made bad deals. Quark put himself in trouble by making deals with people who would kill him. He’s worked with dangerous people before, so that’s not new.

Why should the Federation suddenly be responsible for it? They give him a great deal for free. They have let him get away with a great deal. They ended up asking him to treat his employees better in return.

For this, you blame them for Brunt’s actions, who already had it out for Quark. You blame them for how other Ferengi see him for working with Starfleet, but that’s a choice he made. Sisko blackmailed him to stay, yes, but years later, he is still there of his own free will. Quark is responsible for the situation he is in.

As for his life being in danger, that’s what security is for. The problem is Odo seems to half ass his job when it comes to protecting Quark, and that is entirely Odo’s fault.

When Quark lost everything, his community came through for him. They gave him supplies. They paid him a “storage fee” for the tables and chairs. This time, he got an offer from his cousin before they could do anything. That offer was working for a man willing to let innocents for money. Is it any wonder they react in anger?

[Wargriffin]

Perhaps, but then the same is true for any other weapon when it's not being used. The same argument can be made for a nuclear bomb, which has no other intent but to murder millions of lives in a single blast. It's just I find Chuck making a distinction between sarin gas and a gun to be a bit of a mistaken assumption. If he wants to say a gun is neutral, then so is sarin gas. After all, it will kill man, woman, and child regardless of political or religious backgrounds, whether they've sinned or not. That's kind of fair, when you think about it. In a natural way, that is. The same way we're all equal in death, rich and poor, young and old, doesn't matter.

Perhaps you'd like to make a couple dozen threads on the subject.

That was a Burn Baby Burn worthy of a truly epic shuttle crash.

"Survivors?"

"What we pulled out didn't live for long..."

[Mickey_Rat15]

Not in the case of bombing that colony - Sisko had no way to know it would work past purely intuition. It could have failed, and then he would have been no different than any other tyrant out there. And besides, it was being done to uphold a peace treat that was failing to keep the peace. And yet Sisko still gets in Quark's face over selling to those kind of people, even though on average, they also sell to rebel freedom fighters. Is it worth doing a little bad if you also do a little good too? That's what he did. You'd think he'd be able to see that.

I don't remember where in time this episode falls relative to that, but, yeah. Sisko uses chemical weapons against rogue Federation colonies (presumably with civilian populations not directly involved with the Maquis) and there are not any legal consequences for him worth mentioning, much less moral condemnation from the station crew who generally follow his lead with little more than token objections.

[Aotrs Commander]

All I will permit myself to say on this subject, is that in context, even in Star Trek, which has a relatively low number of inherently hostile species around, Star Fleet can't be everywhere and SOMEBODY needs to give people some sort of protection when there isn't a handy starship around. (Esepcially if they are on one of their non-interference jags.)

Should everyone have guns? Hell, no, far too many people are freakin' idiots, who should no more be given free access to arms to use them than they should to all medicines and medical tools[1], powered tools (e.g. chainsaws) or, frankly, vehicles and children in extreme cases. But those who are prepared, properly equipped and properly trained to deal with those sort of situations that require weapons need to be around - saying that they will never be needed means you have never observed any human society ever. (Let alone that the metaphorical you failed to consider nonhumans.)

The more destructive the tool, the fewer people should be allowed access to use it and be trained on when (or better, when NOT) to use it. This pertains equally to any other form of tool as is does to the subset of tools that are weapons; though, funnily enough, weapons being kind of inherently more dangerous, by y'know, design, they rate higher on this factor. (See chemicals used for agriculture or manufacture or power-generation, or again, medicine or even larger, heavier vehicles. Or, of particular relevance, non-weapon explosives.)

So, like basically EVERYTHING else, context is important. The universe is not a simple place and never will be.



[1]Prescripions exist for a reason, and I sure as hell wouldn't want Random Man Off Street performing surgery.

[Fianna]

Selling weapons to people indiscriminately basically the same as just leaving weapons lying around for anyone to pick up. Sure, it's entirely possible that whoever finds them first will both know how to use them safely and won't have any malicious intent for them, but when people's lives are on the line, you're not supposed to roll the dice like that.

The real issue is that Quark isn't merely desperate for cash, but that there are people willing to kill him over it, which no one but Quark seems to take seriously.

[Archanubis]

Well, didn't expect Swindle to show up in a Star Trek review. Careful Janeway, this is a 'con who once sold his own teammates as spare parts.

[Formless One]

All I will permit myself to say on this subject, is that in context, even in Star Trek, which has a relatively low number of inherently hostile species around, Star Fleet can't be everywhere and SOMEBODY needs to give people some sort of protection when there isn't a handy starship around. (Esepcially if they are on one of their non-interference jags.)

Oh, I just remembered another example of civilian ownership! Guinan has that bigass phaser rifle hidden behind her bar that she pulled out in Night Terrors. And that was on a Federation starship, not a Bajoran station. Plus we learned that Guinan practices marksmanship in Redemption as well, so this isn't something unknown to the command staff despite the surprise the lower ranking officers in Ten Forward showed when she pulled out the rifle. And sure, she may be friends with Picard, but we know he's above favoritism when it violates the law or Starfleet protocall, so she presumably owns it legally.