"Misgendering," Arrests, and the UK

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Is the "beyond the bounds of research," pertaining to social/psycho/neuro implications?

If so I feel we do know a bit about hormones in the form of testosterone and estrogen that lead not only to physical characteristics, but I'd think the more brainy ones listed above as well.

Sorry, in the sense of “there’s no way to test a gender-deconstructed human response experimentally because there’s no ethical way to raise someone outside our existing concept of gender and gender norms”.
You can certainly find historical comparisons or study cultural differences for variations but that’s still a very different thing with much more modest findings.

Ahh. Yeah it's a bit more entrenched than hormonal attributes.

[Karha of Honor]

I'll go ahead and start this off, if nobody minds.

As long as you don't speak like you came out of Left Wing hugbox, go ahead. cast your moral judgement.

Well if you're expecting me to get all Kristen Stewart about it, then I guess I'll get the dwarves ready and set out to disenfranchise your place on this forum before you know it.

I am pretty unbothered about being hated as long as i am not banned.

How can you sit there and lie like that?

Get a proper mob.

[Admiral X]

One has to develop armor when dealing with the moral busybodies.

I will say that this forum is one of the better ones I've been a member of in that there are least isn't a complete echo-chamber in here.

[clearspira]

One has to develop armor when dealing with the moral busybodies.

I will say that this forum is one of the better ones I've been a member of in that there are least isn't a complete echo-chamber in here.

You can thank Chuck for that. He may or may not secretly hate everything every one of us has to say, but in the ten years I have been following this guy he has proven his commitment to free speech a thousand times over. He remains one of only a select few creators I remove my adblock for, exactly for this reason. That's why I am convinced he is on the centre of politics by the by. If there is one constant of the internet is that right leaning and left leaning forums WILL echo chamber and get mod happy eventually - all the while accusing the other side of being thin skinned and cowardly without any trace of irony.

[clearspira]

Is the "beyond the bounds of research," pertaining to social/psycho/neuro implications?

If so I feel we do know a bit about hormones in the form of testosterone and estrogen that lead not only to physical characteristics, but I'd think the more brainy ones listed above as well.

Sorry, in the sense of “there’s no way to test a gender-deconstructed human response experimentally because there’s no ethical way to raise someone outside our existing concept of gender and gender norms”.
You can certainly find historical comparisons or study cultural differences for variations but that’s still a very different thing with much more modest findings.

Google David Reimer.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Is the "beyond the bounds of research," pertaining to social/psycho/neuro implications?

If so I feel we do know a bit about hormones in the form of testosterone and estrogen that lead not only to physical characteristics, but I'd think the more brainy ones listed above as well.

Sorry, in the sense of “there’s no way to test a gender-deconstructed human response experimentally because there’s no ethical way to raise someone outside our existing concept of gender and gender norms”.
You can certainly find historical comparisons or study cultural differences for variations but that’s still a very different thing with much more modest findings.

Google David Reimer.

And your take on this?

[CmdrKing]

*glances*

Oh hey I saw that episode of Law and Order.
Yeah uh reassigning someone in early childhood turns out to be a Really Bad Idea because odds are they were cis and thus you've *created* a mismatch between their gender and sex. Except you're consciously creating and reinforcing that mismatch, meaning they're living in an even more hostile environment than most trans youth!
(PS: also why surgical intervention on ambiguous genitalia is dumb! Maybe wait a few years and see where the kid identifies! Or fuck, maybe take the bold step and let them be unassigned/non-binary!)

Also a good example of why formal human experimentation is unethical as fuck!

Otherwise uh not relevant to my statement since "forcibly reassigning a kid who turned out to be cis" is not the same thing as "raising people in an environment without gender norms". Like this kid was treated as and expected to perform as a girl circa 1970, that's not anything like "genderless society".

[clearspira]

Is the "beyond the bounds of research," pertaining to social/psycho/neuro implications?

If so I feel we do know a bit about hormones in the form of testosterone and estrogen that lead not only to physical characteristics, but I'd think the more brainy ones listed above as well.

Sorry, in the sense of “there’s no way to test a gender-deconstructed human response experimentally because there’s no ethical way to raise someone outside our existing concept of gender and gender norms”.
You can certainly find historical comparisons or study cultural differences for variations but that’s still a very different thing with much more modest findings.

Google David Reimer.

And your take on this?

He's proof that there is such a thing as ''natural'' and well as ''nurtured'' gender.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Is the "beyond the bounds of research," pertaining to social/psycho/neuro implications?

If so I feel we do know a bit about hormones in the form of testosterone and estrogen that lead not only to physical characteristics, but I'd think the more brainy ones listed above as well.

Sorry, in the sense of “there’s no way to test a gender-deconstructed human response experimentally because there’s no ethical way to raise someone outside our existing concept of gender and gender norms”.
You can certainly find historical comparisons or study cultural differences for variations but that’s still a very different thing with much more modest findings.

Google David Reimer.

And your take on this?

He's proof that there is such a thing as ''natural'' and well as ''nurtured'' gender.

With this case for consideration, the natural gender turned out to align with the sex at birth contrary to the nurtured gender...

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Don't hide behind biological determinism. You CHOOSE to be this way.

Tell me about my terribleness please...

I'm not calling you terrible. I'm calling on you to stop saying "blame my parents" when you present your views. Take ownership of what you say or shut your piehole.