Jonathan101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:05 am
Davies likes to kill his companions but can't bring himself to ACTUALLY kill his companions. Donna and Rose got the same treatment of being prophesied to die (by Caan and the Beast, respectively) yet Davies didn't want to go all the way, might have wanted to leave the door open for a future return, and perhaps saw killing them off after setting it up as just too predictable so wanted a twist on it instead.
Moffat did some B.S. with the fate of companions in his time, but at least he actually did kill them (although only the Ponds really "stayed dead"). It always bugged me when Davies did that.
WTF? You're seriously defending Moffat over Davies on the fate of companions or cheating death? Unbelievable. Clara is the ultimate cop out on that, which actually led to a terrible episode.
I think you missed the part where I said "Moffat did some B.S. with the fate of his companions in his time".
Yes, Clara coming back- and coming back in that way- was annoying as Hell, but at least he did in fact kill her.
I also found it slightly more bearable precisely because I'd already been annoyed with Davies twice beforehand over similar things (and Moffat for giving us so many anti-climactic endings) so I wasn't really enraged by that ending so much as just bored as usual.
In before someone makes a similar comment about Bill. It's not a Deux ex machina if you set it up beforehand, which Moffat totally did, so it's a Checkov's Gunman!
Sorry, it's just... I actually liked who Bill's story wrapped, so I get a bit defensive if folks scream 'COP OUT' over it. Plus, who doesn't love liquid nanite space/time lesbians?
Clara having an iffy endingwas the actress' fault. She had a FANTASTIC farewell surprise in her final Christmas episode where its revealed she's grown old away from the doctor. It was very Peter Pan.
But then the actress wanted to stay another year so they very hurridely rewrote the ending and then had to drag her around for another year even though her character arc had already finished two different times. (First year was the impossible girl story, second year was the "Doctor or Danny" story.)
She did get killed at the end... she just has the cheat of a lifetime's worth of adventures within that second of time.
They ran into similar problems with Amy, whose story they ended in season 6 just fine... but the actress wanted to stay around for a little more. Not an entire season, just another five episodes... so she and Rory were just sort of... there, for the first half of season 7 until they rushed an ending with the angels... because.
River is still actually dead too but the whole backward way her narrative works it doesn't even matter.
We'll see how it all shakes out for the 60th anniversary in 2023 where I'm sure they'll drag back as many companions as are willing. I'm sure they'll be able to get Tennant, Smith and Capaldi back, and maaybe MCGaan (though he seems to have gotten his proper farewell in). Probably Whitakker depending on how close her token 3 seasons/depature line up with it, but she'll probably have passed it over by then.
The older living doctors were all willing last time, and I'm sure would be willing again, but the youngest of them will be 70 then, and Tom Baker 90. (and John Hurt died last year) so.... they'd really have to do something different, and probably not The Five-ish Doctors again.
RobbyB1982 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:56 am
Clara having an iffy endingwas the actress' fault. She had a FANTASTIC farewell surprise in her final Christmas episode where its revealed she's grown old away from the doctor. It was very Peter Pan.
But then the actress wanted to stay another year so they very hurridely rewrote the ending and then had to drag her around for another year even though her character arc had already finished two different times. (First year was the impossible girl story, second year was the "Doctor or Danny" story.)
She did get killed at the end... she just has the cheat of a lifetime's worth of adventures within that second of time.
They ran into similar problems with Amy, whose story they ended in season 6 just fine... but the actress wanted to stay around for a little more. Not an entire season, just another five episodes... so she and Rory were just sort of... there, for the first half of season 7 until they rushed an ending with the angels... because.
River is still actually dead too but the whole backward way her narrative works it doesn't even matter.
We'll see how it all shakes out for the 60th anniversary in 2023 where I'm sure they'll drag back as many companions as are willing. I'm sure they'll be able to get Tennant, Smith and Capaldi back, and maaybe MCGaan (though he seems to have gotten his proper farewell in). Probably Whitakker depending on how close her token 3 seasons/depature line up with it, but she'll probably have passed it over by then.
The older living doctors were all willing last time, and I'm sure would be willing again, but the youngest of them will be 70 then, and Tom Baker 90. (and John Hurt died last year) so.... they'd really have to do something different, and probably not The Five-ish Doctors again.
You can't put bad writing on the actors. Angels was ok but made little sense and Hell Bent was just bad in every way. And that's on the writers. They didn't have to write shit episodes. They didn't have to do what they did with Clara's character. But they did.
To some degree you can put it on the actors. The writer plots and plans a story arc of a certain length, and paces the story accordingly based on what they know the actor's schedule is going to be... and then they throw a wrench into theings by leaving early or staying late, and the story has to do a wild shift to accommodate that.
A bad episode is a bad episode, for instance Fear Her or Kill the Moon weren't a finale at all but it was still awful... and almost all the Christmas episodes are bad. That is entirely on the writers. But.... sometimes it is the fault of the production and not the creative talent.
Like it's pretty clear with Silence in the Library the intention was for River to interact with Tennant at least a couple more times, and its REALLY clear in Matt Smith's farewell that Mofatt thought he'd have another year, and so rushed a conclusion to all the Silence/great war/search for Gallifrey stuff in a couple throwaway lines.
(Also, Heaven Sent was a great episode, but Hell Bent was a dud. How it goes.)
Especially noticeable on shows like Babylon 5 or LOST where lots of character arcs and plot beats get tossed aside because the actors leave suddenly and the replacement doesn't quite work out.
