Illegal Border Crossings Surge

[Darth Wedgius]

A wall, patrols, rapid deportations without a hearing to anyone in the country illegally, and denial of government aid services to illegal aliens would, I think, have a positive effect.

[Draco Dracul]

A wall, patrols, rapid deportations without a hearing to anyone in the country illegally, and denial of government aid services to illegal aliens would, I think, have a positive effect.

Rapid deportations with without hearing sounds like a good way to carry out an ethnic cleansing on Latino populations.

[G-Man]

Now it's funny of you to point that out. You can build the wall in exactly two places:

1) Exactly at the border, which leads to US agents being incapable of doing anything until crossers actually attempt to get over or under under the wall and you are going to need a lot of people to cover the length of the wall in order to prevent anyone from crossing over or under it in the first place.
2) You build it behind the border, meaning that if someone tries to cross the wall, he will already be in US territory and thus, under the jurisdiction of what you just suggested to be inadequate to deal with the situation in the first place.

Do you realize something or do I need to write down, where you should put that money instead of building a wall?

And if you don't have a wall, agents still are not really able to do much until the crosser gets over the border. These agents are there to pick them up, not to stop them from crossing. A steel-slat barrier like the one that the President has proposed will allow the agents to see when people are attempting to cross and then take steps to stop them before they are able to cross (see the "tear gas" (really pepper-spray)) incident from November, which occurred in San Diego where there is such a barrier. The goal of a barrier is to slow them down.

Do you think that if we hire more agents, they will magically have the power to turn back the illegal aliens before they cross the border, instead of the illegal aliens rushing the border (and turning them back with tear gas will be difficult if they are crossing over a wide area) and then turning themselves in?

And the wall does nothing to change that as by definition a Wall must be past the boarder. Basically you're accomplishing nothing other than ceding American land.

I guess I need to repeat this part:

A steel-slat barrier like the one that the President has proposed will allow the agents to see when people are attempting to cross and then take steps to stop them before they are able to cross (see the "tear gas" (really pepper-spray)) incident from November, which occurred in San Diego where there is such a barrier. The goal of a barrier is to slow them down.

The fact that the caravan was slowed for weeks in San Diego shows that in fact, a wall DOES slow them down.

[G-Man]

A wall, patrols, rapid deportations without a hearing to anyone in the country illegally, and denial of government aid services to illegal aliens would, I think, have a positive effect.

Rapid deportations with without hearing sounds like a good way to carry out an ethnic cleansing on Latino populations.

And letting everyone who crosses the border stay sounds like a good way to ethnically cleanse non-Latinos from border cities.

In any case, what we need to be able to do is to turn everyone who crosses the border illegally away the same way we are allowed to turn Mexicans away. We need to be able to use the "return" deportation option rather than having to go through the "removal" option. Not sure exactly what level of hearings that involves, but we can already do it with Mexicans, and until around 2008 or 2009 with everyone else as well.

[TGLS]

And letting everyone who crosses the border stay sounds like a good way to ethnically cleanse non-Latinos from border cities.

It seems you don't understand what ethnic cleansing means. From Wikipedia:

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial and/or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, often with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.

Now, even if illegal entrants were causing huge numbers of people to leave border cities to leave, it would hardly be systematic or forced.

[G-Man]

But the primary problem is not a lack of manpower; it is that our current laws make it very difficult to get rid of illegal aliens once they cross onto America soil.

Increasing manpower will not help much if they wind up being nothing more than the welcome wagon. We are already catching more illegal aliens than we can detain so we have to release them. What's the point in doubling or tripling manpower if everyone we catch gets released into the country anyway?

Now it's funny of you to point that out. You can build the wall in exactly two places:

1) Exactly at the border, which leads to US agents being incapable of doing anything until crossers actually attempt to get over oder under the wall and you are going to need a lot of people to cover the length of the wall in order to prevent anyone from crossing over oder under it in the first place.
2) You build it behind the border, meaning that if someone tries to cross the wall, he will already be in US territory and thus, under the jurisdiction of what you just suggested to be inadequate to deal with the situation in the first place.

Do you realize something or do I need to write down, where you should put that money instead of building a wall?

I

Thank you for the oh-so-hilarious condescension. I am sure you are very pleased with how clever you think you are.

The problem is, unless you can impede people from getting over the border, you would need to have an agent at every twenty feet for agents to deter illegal border crossings. It would be too easy to simply rush the border and there would be no way to stop them.

A physical barrier does slow them down, as happened in San Diego.

Spending the money on more agents (which I presume is what you are referring to) instead of a wall (as opposed to spending on both) would simply result in more catch-and-release.

But that misses the real problem, which is that Democrats are unwilling to do anything to change the policies that make it impossible to defend the border. They are denying that there is any emergency, not simply saying "the wall won't help, but let's work on something to fix the problem." They are denying that there is any problem with tens of thousands of illegal aliens crossing the border every month. At the same time, they want no change in our asylum policies, no change to the Flores policy that requires catch-and-release for minors, they want to stop all "separation of children and their 'parents'" which combined with Flores means that if you bring a kid with you you get caught and released. In addition, they want to limit the number of beds available for detention, which will lead to even more catch-and-release.

The Democrats are offering nothing to deal with the crisis on the border. No policy changes, nothing but spending more on patrols or sensors while maintaining the same catch-and-release policies that render the sensors and patrols useless. And they deny that there is a crisis, even though border crossings in February were at a 12-year high. The only immigration policy they are interested in is in how to get as many illegal aliens on a path to citizenship as possible (they are planning on unveiling "DREAM Act" legislation this month). That's why I have a problem with them.

Regardless of how you feel about the wall, the latest figures on border apprehensions should at least prove that the Democrats are either lying or deluded when they talk about how low border crossings are or about the lack of an emergency or crisis at the border.

[G-Man]

And letting everyone who crosses the border stay sounds like a good way to ethnically cleanse non-Latinos from border cities.

It seems you don't understand what ethnic cleansing means. From Wikipedia:

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial and/or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, often with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.

Now, even if illegal entrants were causing huge numbers of people to leave border cities to leave, it would hardly be systematic or forced.

People who are made so miserable by the changes in their towns caused by a deliberate, malicious non-enforcement policy probably do not find much comfort in the fact that the government technically managed to keep its hands clean.

[Yukaphile]

Hell, you're getting so upset about desperate refugees and asylum seekers trying to search for a better life in the country whose government fucked up their nations during the Cold War, installing puppet dictators? Why not get upset over things like ICE which is not at the level of concatenation camps for Latinos, and I'm not going to be one of the more emotional liberals who claim otherwise, but they are at the same level as the Japanese internment camps. Only seven decades later, here we are, repeating those same fucking mistakes.

[Darth Wedgius]

A wall, patrols, rapid deportations without a hearing to anyone in the country illegally, and denial of government aid services to illegal aliens would, I think, have a positive effect.

Rapid deportations with without hearing sounds like a good way to carry out an ethnic cleansing on Latino populations.

Does the Latino population all illegally cross the border? That hasn't been in the news.

[Yukaphile]

My friend lives in Arizona, and he says sometimes they don't care if you're legal or not, they'll just round you up if you're Hispanic. It's full-blown racial profiling. Which is no surprise given it's the state where Arpaio came from.