Police discussion/debate thread

[Yukaphile]

That, and the KKK and neo-Nazis white ultra-nationalists - you know, those gun nuts who Admiral X described above as precisely those looking to enter into authority to abuse the position and bully others? - started entering law enforcement over ten years ago. Department of Homeland Security warned us, and no one listened. Because this was Bush's era, and no one cared if white radicals were cops because it would "hurt" the terrorists who they saw as brown-skinned foreigners. Look how that's bit us in the ass. Like that one cop who fed a poor homeless guy a shit sandwich.

I kind of sympathize with the police in one respect. It IS their duty to uphold a law, no matter how unjust it is, like the law I read about with some states banning feeding the homeless people in their states. To strictly want to adhere to rules and regulations is not a bad thing. When it escalates into excess, then it becomes bad.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I'm willing to entertain the possiblity that there are good people who want to be police, and people who become police and even stay good people.

These are the people who, if they are lucky, get fired. If they aren't lucky, they get detained as Emotionally Disturbed Persons for going home early, or they get chased into their house which catches on fire and the fire department is ordered not to put those fires out.

Policemen, just by fulfilling the responsiblities of their job, will put away people in the modern day Debtor's Prison, will fine people for crimes that will destroy a working-class person's stability and that a rich person will ignore, will deal out that special brand of equality where both the rich and the poor are imprisoned for sleeping under bridges and stealing loaves of bread.
and THEN, there are the "bad" ones.

A policeman is, at best, a Lawful Neutral character who sometimes does good things, but can easily get away with murder, and knows it.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Some other salient points though, if you find my general thrust hard to see eye-to-eye with:

Courts have ruled that citizens are not allowed to escape police custody even if they are unlawfully detained, as long as the police think they have just cause.

Civil asset forfiture essentially allows police to take your possessions, without trial or due process, as long as you are tangentally connected with a crime, such as "your cousin who you haven't seen for years sold weed in this city". This can include your house.

The USA's armed forces are better trained in de-escalation than our police are.

[Yukaphile]

"The possibility?" It's not "possible." I've met many of them when dealing with my brother's mental illness problems. And they never once escalated the problem and shot him. Granted, he has white man privilege, but there's also the fact he was resisting heavily and spitting at them! He got very violent off his meds, so they could have easily shot him at any time.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

You are damning them with faint praise. It's like saying "Well, this pizza guy came to my house and delivered pizza many times, and he didn't run over my mailbox or poison us!"

Policemen are the only job that gets praise for not murdering people in their work. In other professions, this is the bare minimum expected. No matter how thoroughly provoked, and believe me there is ample provocation, a CVS employee working the register cannot reach his hands out and strangle the harroden shreiking at him about something that's not his fault and still have a job. Cops, on the other hand, get paid vacations for that kind of stuff.

I'm glad they didn't hurt your brother. That doesn't change that cops who don't murder people will cover for the cops who do.

[Yukaphile]

Policemen are an essential part of our society, same as firefighters. No, I won't subscribe to this new "anti-police" mindset that's sweeping the nation. They need reform. Do I deny that? No. But without them, imagine where we'd be? It's only the excess that's a problem. And sometimes in their line of work, they gotta kill. That's expected. And... you have a problem with cops having vacations? They're human beings who deserve time off. It's only other workers who are being exploited that are the problem, but you tackle that with reform too.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I have a problem with cops being put on paid leave whenever they murder somebody.

90% of what cops do does not involve danger of any kind. They are largely bureaucrats with guns.

Cops don't deserve kudos for managing to do their jobs without killing innocents, and the fact that you need to say "well they came out and did NOT murder my mentally ill brother!" is, again, damning them with faint praise.

The most law-abiding cop will commit all sorts of atrocities and injustices in the course of his job...and then, there are the Bad ones.

[Yukaphile]

For those specific cops, I could understand. Hell, for me, they should be in jail then.

I'm not praising them for that. I just don't think demonizing 18,000 people is a good idea. There are definitely lots of bad ones need weeding out, and we need serious reform on this, but they definitely serve a vital role in our society, and that police-bashing is now a new norm is just part of the same cynical "we live in a society" attitude most people in today's world have.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

You show me a cop who doesn't do shady shit on the job or cover other people's police brutality, and I'll show you a cop who lost his job.

Police in the USA are institutionally corrupt. We are beyond "a few bad apples". We have a barrel that is so full of moldy, rotten apples that any fresh apple put into it will bounce out or instantly decay. The bad cops stay on and become cop leaders.

It's not wrong to judge large groups of people if moral bankruptcy is required for continued membership. That's like saying "You can't just dismiss all puppy mill owners as bad people" or "not everyone who evicts little old ladies is cruel!" If your job is doing bad things, then you are bad.

[Yukaphile]

That's pure conjecture. Seeing cop shows or criminal justice shows paints a different picture, of people who are interested in serving, as Admiral X had pointed out.

So you do purport that damn near close to 18,000 people are bad? Bah. This is why I HATE the hard left's habit of virtue-signaling. No one is perfect. And if they're doing weed, for example, they confiscate from criminals, you know what? I can overlook that. You can't demand utter perfection from people. They will always disappoint you.

And that's where we differ. I won't judge huge populations of people. I'm not the supreme arbiter of right and wrong. I won't judge all Trump voters and all people under Nazi Germany the same. They are and were just ordinary people living their lives.