When DS9 does something different from the format TOS and TNG had, it gets backlash. When STD does it, it gets praise for being "new and fresh." Why is that? It's even worse when you contrast DS9 alongside Voyager, which got a lot of praise for "sticking true to its roots" while DS9 "was a betrayal."
Where is this coming from? Why do people say that?
What's up with this hypocrisy?
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Yukaphile
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What's up with this hypocrisy?
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
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Makeshift Python
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Re: What's up with this hypocrisy?
A contingent of loud fans always react negatively to newer shows. It’s nothing new.
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MixedDrops
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Re: What's up with this hypocrisy?
Are you kidding me? There's way more backlash against Discovery than DS9 ever got, though to be fair it might only seem that way because of how internet discourse has changed over the years.
Re: What's up with this hypocrisy?
The difference is that STD is being supported by "current year" cheerleaders while DS9 had to rely on people actually giving it a chance and recognizing the quality of the writing.
"Black care rarely sits behind a rider whose pace is fast enough."
-TR
-TR
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MixedDrops
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Re: What's up with this hypocrisy?
Yeah, because there totally isn't a bunch of jackholes who were crapping on Discovery before it even came out because some of the creators said that diversity is a good thing, or because the show has a black woman or a completely pedestrian gay couple. What's your point?
Ignoring all that, there do exist people that have watched it, and like it, despite whatever objections you might have to that.
Ignoring all that, there do exist people that have watched it, and like it, despite whatever objections you might have to that.
Last edited by MixedDrops on Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Yukaphile
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Re: What's up with this hypocrisy?
The problem here is that Trek was openly diverse long before STD, especially TNG and DS9. Their words strike me as if they think it wasn't. Look at fucking Sisko, a black lead! So don't give me that bullshit. The only area that might have needed fixing was more trans representation (like casually changing sex just for the joy of it or curiosity, or to experience intimacy from "the other side") and gay couples - and look at how they managed to botch the one gay ship they had in the show. I know enough about STD to know that. In that respect, it still loses out to The Culture in terms of LGBT rights.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
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MixedDrops
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Re: What's up with this hypocrisy?
Cite the quote you're talking about, because I don't recall reading anything other than "diversity is great, and Trek is a great vehicle for that" or some other form of that kind of quote.
And if you want to go that route of criticizing DIS for not being progressive enough, then arguably every Trek show starting with TNG was pretty shit at that. The Outcast was a pretty good example of that.
But either way that's still not relevant to "why are people forgiving DIS for doing the same thing DS9 is doing", because you should know as well as anyone these days there's a lot of people who preemptively decided they need to hate anything even slightly progressive to "stick it to the SJWs" or whatever the fuck.
The premise of your thread is bullshit even without that, there were lots and lots of people who liked DS9 for doing something different even while it was running.
And if you want to go that route of criticizing DIS for not being progressive enough, then arguably every Trek show starting with TNG was pretty shit at that. The Outcast was a pretty good example of that.
But either way that's still not relevant to "why are people forgiving DIS for doing the same thing DS9 is doing", because you should know as well as anyone these days there's a lot of people who preemptively decided they need to hate anything even slightly progressive to "stick it to the SJWs" or whatever the fuck.
The premise of your thread is bullshit even without that, there were lots and lots of people who liked DS9 for doing something different even while it was running.
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Darth Wedgius
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Re: What's up with this hypocrisy?
I think DS9 struggled in the ratings for a while and received some backlash for being "grittier" than Roddenberry's utopian TNG. And as much as I love DS9's character work, it seems the least science fictiony of the Treks to me, and it'll never be my favorite Trek for that reason.
I've only seen one episode of STD (it was on YouTube), and I thought it was kinda OK, but can't say much more about it. Except that some people like it for political reasons, and some people dislike it for political reasons, and if that happened with DS9, I missed it.
I've only seen one episode of STD (it was on YouTube), and I thought it was kinda OK, but can't say much more about it. Except that some people like it for political reasons, and some people dislike it for political reasons, and if that happened with DS9, I missed it.
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Yukaphile
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Re: What's up with this hypocrisy?
@MixedDrops I'm calling you out. You said the creators of STD were saying diversity is a good thing in Trek, and yet that's nothing new.
And I know TNG was crap at LGBT representation, though DS9 was a lot stronger in that regard. Stronger than STD, even, since I see Dax as being a trans allegory.
And I know TNG was crap at LGBT representation, though DS9 was a lot stronger in that regard. Stronger than STD, even, since I see Dax as being a trans allegory.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
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MixedDrops
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Re: What's up with this hypocrisy?
My point wasn't that diversity is a new thing in Trek, my point is that the current political climate contains a lot of people who have this knee-jerk reaction now anytime its brought up, even within the Trek community despite the fact it shouldn't have this problem. You should know this as well as anyone.
And again, that has dick all to do with your original question anyway. You were asking why people forgive DIS for doing similar things to DS9. Except almost every time I hear it brought up DS9 is specifically cited to explain why DIS fits just fine with Trek shows. And again, lots of people enjoyed DS9 for how different it was while it was airing. You're just creating a bullshit conflict where there isn't one.
And again, that has dick all to do with your original question anyway. You were asking why people forgive DIS for doing similar things to DS9. Except almost every time I hear it brought up DS9 is specifically cited to explain why DIS fits just fine with Trek shows. And again, lots of people enjoyed DS9 for how different it was while it was airing. You're just creating a bullshit conflict where there isn't one.
