Religious debate

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Hebrews 11:17-19 explains the significance of the Abraham-Isaac passage to Christianity.

I'm kind of a newb, what's the difference between each iteration?

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Hebrews 11:17-19 explains the significance of the Abraham-Isaac passage to Christianity.

I'm kind of a newb, what's the difference between each iteration?

I'm not sure what you mean. The Hebrews passage is in the New Testament, and the author frames several different Old Testament heroes and their actions in light of the New Testament/the advent of Christianity.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Hebrews 11:17-19 explains the significance of the Abraham-Isaac passage to Christianity.

I'm kind of a newb, what's the difference between each iteration?

I'm not sure what you mean. The Hebrews passage is in the New Testament, and the author frames several different Old Testament heroes and their actions in light of the New Testament/the advent of Christianity.

What does that have to do with letting serial killers into heaven though?

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Hebrews 11:17-19 explains the significance of the Abraham-Isaac passage to Christianity.

I'm kind of a newb, what's the difference between each iteration?

I'm not sure what you mean. The Hebrews passage is in the New Testament, and the author frames several different Old Testament heroes and their actions in light of the New Testament/the advent of Christianity.

What does that have to do with letting serial killers into heaven though?

I still don't know what you mean. I was responding to whether the Abraham-Isaac story was relevant to New Testament Christianity (it is), not to the original question you and yuka were debating a few pages back.

With regard to the opening post- I think, Yuka, that you need to study a little bit more deeply as to what Christians actually believe and how they think redemption, salvation, and all the rest of that actually works. This can be tough because there's a huge variety of different views across different denominations and theology traditions. No one answer or view would cover what all Protestants believe, let alone all the differences they have with Catholics or Eastern Orthodox perspectives. With that said, there are a few fundamental points that most Christians agree on. One of those is that "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

[Beelzquill]

One of my problems with the Christian afterlife is the fact that it is mostly static. Yeah, purgatory exists at least in the Roman Catholic sect in which I was raised, but I just find it impossible to imagine someone upon getting into heaven and presumably maintaining free will never being able to change into a "bad" person who, while not needing to go to hell, doesn't deserve to remain in heaven until they change. Likewise, I find it even more difficult to believe that someone who goes to hell isn't willing to try to change for the better after a million years. I guess eternal bliss and damnation are concepts just too big for my brain.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Hebrews 11:17-19 explains the significance of the Abraham-Isaac passage to Christianity.

I'm kind of a newb, what's the difference between each iteration?

I'm not sure what you mean. The Hebrews passage is in the New Testament, and the author frames several different Old Testament heroes and their actions in light of the New Testament/the advent of Christianity.

What does that have to do with letting serial killers into heaven though?

I still don't know what you mean. I was responding to whether the Abraham-Isaac story was relevant to New Testament Christianity (it is), not to the original question you and yuka were debating a few pages back.

With regard to the opening post- I think, Yuka, that you need to study a little bit more deeply as to what Christians actually believe and how they think redemption, salvation, and all the rest of that actually works. This can be tough because there's a huge variety of different views across different denominations and theology traditions. No one answer or view would cover what all Protestants believe, let alone all the differences they have with Catholics or Eastern Orthodox perspectives. With that said, there are a few fundamental points that most Christians agree on. One of those is that "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

Oh! What do you think of comparative religion?

[Yukaphile]

@ChiggyvonRichthofen What I care about is justice, and I tend to think deeply on what awaits us in the other world. I've read about people like those Richmond criminals back in 2009, who merrily went on with their lives and never faced a single day in a courtroom, and then people demonize their victims and put a sympathetic face on the guilty parties, to the point it gets me down and depressed, because sometimes it feels like, with justice denied to us in this life and people missing the point and siding with those they really shouldn't, the afterlife might be the only chance that's left, but no, if it's true a sex abuser and mass murderer can be let into a place of peace and light and love even though they exhibit none of those qualities, well... what does it say about the universe? It is sadly consistent with how unfair the universe is, and how cruel our society is.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

@ChiggyvonRichthofen What I care about is justice, and I tend to think deeply on what awaits us in the other world. I've read about people like those Richmond criminals back in 2009, who merrily went on with their lives and never faced a single day in a courtroom, and then people demonize their victims and put a sympathetic face on the guilty parties, to the point it gets me down and depressed, because sometimes it feels like, with justice denied to us in this life and people missing the point and siding with those they really shouldn't, the afterlife might be the only chance that's left, but no, if it's true a sex abuser and mass murderer can be let into a place of peace and light and love even though they exhibit none of those qualities, well... what does it say about the universe? It is sadly consistent with how unfair the universe is, and how cruel our society is.

So you're more like Elliot Ness trying to take down Capone through the IRS?

[Yukaphile]

I guess. Quite ironic, because that's my real name. Seriously. I have the same name as the kid from the E.T. movie.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

@ChiggyvonRichthofen What I care about is justice, and I tend to think deeply on what awaits us in the other world. I've read about people like those Richmond criminals back in 2009, who merrily went on with their lives and never faced a single day in a courtroom, and then people demonize their victims and put a sympathetic face on the guilty parties, to the point it gets me down and depressed, because sometimes it feels like, with justice denied to us in this life and people missing the point and siding with those they really shouldn't, the afterlife might be the only chance that's left, but no, if it's true a sex abuser and mass murderer can be let into a place of peace and light and love even though they exhibit none of those qualities, well... what does it say about the universe? It is sadly consistent with how unfair the universe is, and how cruel our society is.

I can certainly understand that. My point is- a) according to the Christian view, no one (outside perhaps those who cannot bear moral culpability, like infants or the disabled) earns heaven, and feeling bad about your sins doesn't get it done either. And b) different denominations are going to have different views on who exactly does go to heaven.

Should add as well that according to John's Revelation, everyone "gives an accounting" of their sin. What exactly that's meant to entail, I'm not sure.

Oh! What do you think of comparative religion?

I'm a Christian myself so I don't see all religions as equally true or valid, but that doesn't mean that it's an illegitimate field or anything. Many different religions are trying to describe the same metaphysical entity and to deal with the same sort of human problems.