How best to combat fake news?

[Yukaphile]

I think he's being sarcastic...

[Zoinksberg]

It's not often that I agree completely with Yuka, but he's right: this is not a new thing, it's just that for the first time in our history we have the means to give everyone an mostly equal voice and the ability to propagate ideas freely throughout the world.

IMO, you can't stop people from believing what they want to believe and reading what they want to read. A lot of people will convince themselves of things that are demonstrably false but assure themselves with anything that backs up their opinions. This goes for politics, religion, and the box office results of Captain Marvel. The best any of us can do is try to push for good hard data and make our own decisions. Force yourself to question even the things that say what you want to hear, and you are making a positive difference.

More importantly, to me, is to recognize what we have in common before demonizing what we have in difference. A lot of people on this forum I disagree with on this and that, but we are all a part of this forum because we like SFDebris, right? Maybe we aren't so different. And maybe we can argue and yell and disagree, but at the end of the day set this stuff aside and laugh about it?

Or maybe I shouldn't have had that second glass of wine this evening. That is very much a possibility.

[Yukaphile]

WOO-HOO! Someone agrees with me!

[Yukaphile]

And yeah, dividing people into an "us vs. them" mentality and demonizing "the other" is something that always drives me absolutely bonkers Even if "the other" isn't that bad. Or people who try to put a positive face on people they shouldn't. The worst kind of scum. This is all too commonplace, and it's disgusting.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Taking up a directive to change people's minds is a bit lofty. A thing about red pilling is that pretty much anything is subject to a lie, and it's often time just a sport to denounce anything you say on an objective basis as rhetoric. And yeah taking it as your own responsibility verges on arrogant.

[G-Man]

So, I've expressed my exasperation and rage at the proliferation of fake news, "alternative facts", and subtly racist propaganda on the Internet and elsewhere. I've expressed my exasperation at the apparent ineffectiveness of calm, rational debate in combating these trends, and at how the only way to get a single damn person to believe a thing I say is to scream and curse like a semi-sentient baboon who's been denied candy.

Somehow I doubt that makes people more likely to believe you. Nodding and then quickly changing the subject is not the same as belief.

Of course, the implication that everything you say is objective fact, and that everyone else must be simply perverse, or that you always have the correct accurate information is also a little bit - overly self-confident.

"Subtly racist propaganda." I might as easily say that too many people have a near-religious belief in empirical equality that leads them to treat everyone as interchangeable widgets and blank slates.

That being said--does anybody have any thoughts on how to fight the proliferation of conspiracy theories, Islamophobia, victim-blaming, and other bigoted nonsense?

There is fake news on all sides, and the best you can do is to rationally figure out what you think is accurate, put out your side, and hope that a few people will be convinced. Screaming and cursing has its place, I suppose (I do it too), but that is more about catharsis on your part than about persuading people. I would also say that pre-supposing that everything that you don't agree with is bigoted nonsense is not helpful.

That's tyrannical and nothing but a speed bump to those who want to get around it. A massive waste of time and money, not to mention counterproductive to boot.

I mean some way to, I don't know, get people to believe the truth instead of "alternative facts" more?

As I said before, put out your side, and hope that some get convinced. Again, though, your assumption that you have the absolute, unvarnished truth is probably not a good way to start...

[Nealithi]

That being said--does anybody have any thoughts on how to fight the proliferation of conspiracy theories, Islamophobia, victim-blaming, and other bigoted nonsense?

To start, no.
Conspiracy theories are a method to explain away things you do not understand. Then may be latched onto by others who did not know how to define a feeling they also had. This may, and I emphasize may, be in part to there being actual conspiracies to do some really weird things. Just this morning I heard the CIA had a plan to blame Cuba if the John Glenn orbit failed. And this might lead to invading Cuba. . . This was on the TV. If true there are some serious real conspiracies that make Roswell and flat Earth seem quaint. And if false, I didn't read the paper I was just told it exists, then media is stirring up conspiracies for people to go ape over. Maybe both?

Islamophobia, to be honest I knew one muslim before 9/11. After that they went fromt page and seem to stay there. I think Islamophobia will be a centerpiece till the media stops promoting it.

Victim-blaming, IE did you see what she was wearing? This one has been around so long. But lets ask this. Is it always replied to the same way? Or is it only a social/legal defense when the accused was popular/wealthy? I ask because if victim blaming does not help if you are a young man from Camden, NJ. But might get your case tossed if you are a quarterback at a prestigious university for example. Then it is a social inequity that has to be pressed upon. If it is across the board then it is a social issue we have a long way to go educating people to be better on. And when it comes to disparate dress-codes between genders. If I read/hear that a female's mode of dress is distracting the males. Then the males need to learn self control. Not cover the women. But that is an issue I growl at.

Bigoted nonsense. . . I think you used the term twice there. But I think one of the problems with bigotry is the metaphorical pendulum. Please bear with me, but I think some of the hate comes from institutional divides. People hate it when another group gains what seems to be a disparate wealth gain. Especially if it is perceived to be undeserved. Example from around me: A woman of colour was given many promotions due to her gender and skin as opposed to her skills. Including accolades for projects she did not work on. Being promoted past people that knew the job far better than she did. This creates resentment. This person was handed something that should have been earned by merit. So those passed over did less since merit was not rewarded and if chastised for slacking off were angry at the woman and her skin colour over it. This is the pendulum swung too far over. I think Affirmative action has its place. But it should be like other items for hiring. My father is a disabled vet. That means there were points used to determine hiring him. If you want to make hiring people with different skin colours a thing, give them a few points but leave it still most heavily based upon merit.
Other than that I have few ideas on combating bigotry. An Us vs. Them attitude seems ingrained in humanity and I am not sure how to remove it or at least keep it below hate.

[Karha of Honor]

Again, what I said in another thread. We're still fighting the same fucking battles we were 10,000 years ago, the same war over ideas that's plagued us since the beginning.

Could you elaborate on what are you talking about?

It's not often that I agree completely with Yuka, but he's right: this is not a new thing, it's just that for the first time in our history we have the means to give everyone an mostly equal voice and the ability to propagate ideas freely throughout the world.

IMO, you can't stop people from believing what they want to believe and reading what they want to read. A lot of people will convince themselves of things that are demonstrably false but assure themselves with anything that backs up their opinions. This goes for politics, religion, and the box office results of Captain Marvel. The best any of us can do is try to push for good hard data and make our own decisions. Force yourself to question even the things that say what you want to hear, and you are making a positive difference.

More importantly, to me, is to recognize what we have in common before demonizing what we have in difference. A lot of people on this forum I disagree with on this and that, but we are all a part of this forum because we like SFDebris, right? Maybe we aren't so different. And maybe we can argue and yell and disagree, but at the end of the day set this stuff aside and laugh about it?

Or maybe I shouldn't have had that second glass of wine this evening. That is very much a possibility.

I am only here because of sig size and i trust SF not to ban me over ideology.

[Riedquat]

And yeah, dividing people into an "us vs. them" mentality and demonizing "the other" is something that always drives me absolutely bonkers Even if "the other" isn't that bad. Or people who try to put a positive face on people they shouldn't. The worst kind of scum. This is all too commonplace, and it's disgusting.

You've got to be careful there. You're asking for some others to not be demonised but also criticising people for putting a positive face on people they shouldn't. People are complex creatures and even the worst probably have some positive aspects to their personality, but you can get demonised yourself for even mentioning them.

[Riedquat]

That being said--does anybody have any thoughts on how to fight the proliferation of conspiracy theories, Islamophobia, victim-blaming, and other bigoted nonsense?

It isn't necessarily bigoted nonsense, and claiming so is the sort of pigeonholed thinking that causes a lot of the issues in the first place. Sometimes there is a conspiracy, sometimes the victim was a victim of their own actions (had a bit of that not long ago where people were defending a couple of others who were killed on railway tracks that they'd were on to vandalise).

To get around this it needs to go back to schools. At the time I thought the history I was doing was largely tedious stuff (mostly Cold War). A lot of it consisted of being given a pile of newspaper reports, newsreel footage, radio transcripts etc. from different sources and being told to work out what was going on from them, and why you used some more than others for different parts of the picture, having to consider the reliability. That's what we need, not "you should think this..." even where the message is seemingly positive.