Makeshift Python wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:35 am
If you don’t like it it’s probably no longer meant for you so you might as well just drop it.
They weren't wery straight with me. They should have said it's rated P for partisan politics and make it clear in the marketing that they don't want anyone outside of the self identified PC left watching their product.
If you wanna criticize the newest Eastwood or Zahler movie, or fiction written by a dirty right winger i don't say it wasn't meant for you.
The fan division over the new Star Wars films has smeg-all to do with the casting. It's the writing that has people complaining.
The only people who are blaming anything on the casting are the ones who see themselves as reacting against people who were lauded the casting. Even they're OK with the casting, and are just complaining about why they think other people liked the casting.
Both sides seem to say that movies can do fine with women/minority leads, so the fact that ANY given movie has them is, ironically, functionally irrelevant regardless of why it has them. All that matters is how the writing is handled.
The people who actively laud the casting yet dislike the films have largely the same issues with the writing that the people backlashing against them for lauding the casting do, so why the fuck is anyone arguing over the goddamn casting?
Nessus wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:46 am
The fan division over the new Star Wars films has smeg-all to do with the casting. It's the writing that has people complaining.
The only people who are blaming anything on the casting are the ones who see themselves as reacting against people who were lauded the casting. Even they're OK with the casting, and are just complaining about why they think other people liked the casting.
Both sides seem to say that movies can do fine with women/minority leads, so the fact that ANY given movie has them is, ironically, functionally irrelevant regardless of why it has them. All that matters is how the writing is handled.
The people who actively laud the casting yet dislike the films have largely the same issues with the writing that the people backlashing against them for lauding the casting do, so why the fuck is anyone arguing over the goddamn casting?
Because some how casting with diversity in mind is “PC” “leftists” or some such nonissue stuff.
Nessus wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:46 am
The fan division over the new Star Wars films has smeg-all to do with the casting. It's the writing that has people complaining.
The only people who are blaming anything on the casting are the ones who see themselves as reacting against people who were lauded the casting. Even they're OK with the casting, and are just complaining about why they think other people liked the casting.
Both sides seem to say that movies can do fine with women/minority leads, so the fact that ANY given movie has them is, ironically, functionally irrelevant regardless of why it has them. All that matters is how the writing is handled.
The people who actively laud the casting yet dislike the films have largely the same issues with the writing that the people backlashing against them for lauding the casting do, so why the fuck is anyone arguing over the goddamn casting?
Because some how casting with diversity in mind is “PC” “leftists” or some such nonissue stuff.
Nothing PC about casting xyz not white. Talking about like it's 1967 on the other hand...
Makeshift Python wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:44 am
I really don’t care. Might as well just stop interacting from here on because you’re not worth discussing anything with.
Care to break down how you came to that conclusion?
Nessus is 100% right. I don't mind women being cast in the previously all-boys club of main protagonist in a Star Wars film. I do object to the bad writing that's symptomatic of modern-day Hollywood. Hamill himself even compared these films to the Bayformers movies.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Even if the producers or marketers or whatnot demanded "diversity casting", that still only matters to the extent it effects the writing. If the movie taken by itself is bad for reasons incidental to the cast, then it doesn't matter if they were "diversity hires". Similarly, if the cast is at least just as good on their own terms as any given alternative regardless of being "diversity hires", alleged or known, then it doesn't matter if they were diversity hires.
The corollary being even if the cast are shit, it's only on their own terms, because either the producers could have hired good/likable actors of their desired ethnicity/gender, or the complainant is rejecting the idea that actors of those ethnicity/genders can be good in their own right. If you accept (or even just publicly claim, regardless of what you might privately accept) that they can, then your beef can only be with the producers/marketers, not the casting, and only to the extent their alleged agenda effects the writing.
And this is Star Wars. Literally the only example I can think of in all the movies of anyone acting like human races or genders meant anything in any way is Jabba the Hutt creepin' on humanoid women. And who knows: maybe he does that to men too, and just had too much beef with Han to let him get away with only being a dancer/sex slave.
Last edited by Nessus on Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Take the original trilogy, which was basically the all-white Rebels vs. the all-white Empire. Yet they're more beloved than anything else since.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Yeah, but there's Lando. There might only have been one of him, but no one acted like he was anything different, characters or writers.
The prequels, whatever else one might think of them, gave us more examples of that.
Similarly, no one ever acted like Liea being a woman meant anything, aside from the male characters competing for her romantically. In the prequels we get women Jedi, bounty hunters, what have you. No one in universe bats an eye, and neither do audiences.
That's exactly my point. It was all white men fighting the major battles of the Alliance - Battle of Yavin, Battle of Hoth, and Battle of Endor is the only exception. Given the Empire's campaign of genocide against aliens, you'd think there'd be more aliens. And given how patriarchal the Empire is, you'd think there'd be more women - maybe. But no. Still, my point was the writing surpasses the limitations of the time - like perhaps the fact that hiring so many minorities and women would have been impossible or culturally stigmatized. I'd have been happy to see more diversity, but the story must always come first.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
