But....who will render moral judgment upon the masses now?

[clearspira]

It doesn't list Antifa as extremist, but lists groups that have been far less violent. A loss for SPLC is a victory for real justice.

I'm sorry I'm not sure how Antifa relates to hate groups? Asking why they don't track Antifa is a bit like asking why NRA doesn't campaign for food and drug safety.

Because they are perfectly willing to beat up people they SUSPECT to be far right in the middle of the street as if they are the Punisher? Whenever someone asks this it is immediately obvious they have looked no further than propaganda into how this group operates.

And you've not explained how they are a hate group. Because that's what SPLC tracks.

The Department of homeland Security has branded them terrorists.

And? While there is certainly overlap between the two terrorists and hate groups aren't the same thing.

Oh, please, enlighten me on the subtleties of the two. Terrorists use violence to enact political change, and hate groups... use violence to enact political change. I dunno man - it seems to me you are about to dig a hole for yourself here as you attempt to explain the difference.

[Darth Wedgius]

It doesn't list Antifa as extremist, but lists groups that have been far less violent. A loss for SPLC is a victory for real justice.

I'm sorry I'm not sure how Antifa relates to hate groups? Asking why they don't track Antifa is a bit like asking why NRA doesn't campaign for food and drug safety.

Because they are perfectly willing to beat up people they SUSPECT to be far right in the middle of the street as if they are the Punisher? Whenever someone asks this it is immediately obvious they have looked no further than propaganda into how this group operates.

And you've not explained how they are a hate group. Because that's what SPLC tracks.

Correction, the SPLC tracks hate groups and extremist groups.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Antifa are a movement, rather than a cohesive group. They have no structure, no heirarchy, no meetings.
Things like the KKK, for example, are groups, because they have a defined membership, regular contact with different cells, ranks, leaders, etc.

But that's not really the point, is it? Saying SPLC is wrong because they don't track Antifa is barely better than what-aboutism and shows disregard for all the very real, very serious, very dangerous hate groups they do track. If you know of a better gold standard for nonprofit identification and monitoring of hate movements, then I'd like to hear it.

[Antiboyscout]

Antifa are a movement, rather than a cohesive group. They have no structure, no heirarchy, no meetings.
Things like the KKK, for example, are groups, because they have a defined membership, regular contact with different cells, ranks, leaders, etc.

But that's not really the point, is it? Saying SPLC is wrong because they don't track Antifa is barely better than what-aboutism and shows disregard for all the very real, very serious, very dangerous hate groups they do track. If you know of a better gold standard for nonprofit identification and monitoring of hate movements, then I'd like to hear it.

Antifa is organized, online. How do you think they plan and organize black-block attacks/demonstrations?

[Darth Wedgius]

Antifa are a movement, rather than a cohesive group. They have no structure, no heirarchy, no meetings.
Things like the KKK, for example, are groups, because they have a defined membership, regular contact with different cells, ranks, leaders, etc.

But that's not really the point, is it? Saying SPLC is wrong because they don't track Antifa is barely better than what-aboutism and shows disregard for all the very real, very serious, very dangerous hate groups they do track. If you know of a better gold standard for nonprofit identification and monitoring of hate movements, then I'd like to hear it.

How about, "a movement that includes, as a basic, defining precept, considering a group defined by unalterable characteristics as intrinsically lesser or worthy of inferior treatment" ?

Again, Antifa is not a hate group by that definition, but an extremist group. They advocate violence and denial of free speech to those who disagree with them.

If the "3 Percenters," without a direct record of violence, but with a belief in conspiracy theories, can be considered extreme, then surely Antifa can be.

There are additional considerations. The presence of some criticism of some people defined by immutable characteristics by some group members will be enough to taint an entire group in some cases, but not others. If a group had racism in its origin but has tried to distance itself from that, that's treated as evidence for a hate group. If members of a group march down the street shouting, "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon," that's fine, though. If a group chants, "No border, no wall, no USA at all," hey, everyone's got an opinion.

This is what-aboutism, but arguing against unequal treatment is arguing for justice. I do want hate groups tracked, but I think the SPLC is too flawed for the influence it wields. Indeed, I've seen that bias used as an excuse to question the idea of hate groups entirely. And I think the presence of people in the SPLC's leadership with antithetical views or habits for such a long time suggests an insularity I'm extraordinarily uncomfortable with.