Politics of the British Isles

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Fixer
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Re: Politics of the British Isles

Post by Fixer »

ScreamingDoom wrote:I'll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvzgZR1Dp4s
The first thirty seconds of that video sum up Abbot quite succinctly.

Looks like No Overall Control was the big winner in Scotland. SNP didn't budge much, Tories made huge net gains but mostly from the collapse of Labour and from some independent seats.

England, 4 out of 6 Mayors are Tory.

English councils 27 Blue to 2 red. Nearly 3 and a half the number of seats. From this election, Labour now has less councils in England than Wales.

Biggest of all, UKIP has all but collapsed. From 146 seats to just 1.
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Re: Politics of the British Isles

Post by The Romulan Republic »

On the one hand, its appalling that a party could, through shear incompetence and cowardly self-interest, lead its country into a situation that may lead to the literal disintegration of the country, and yet gain seats.

Hell, even if one supports Brexit in theory, its hard to deny that the Conservative government has failed very badly.

But at the same time, its good to see UKIP get their teeth kicked in. Good riddance to fascist rubbish.
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Re: Politics of the British Isles

Post by Robovski »

UKIP has no reason to exist anymore, they have achieved their main goal: exit from the EU.
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Re: Politics of the British Isles

Post by Antiboyscout »

That's the problem with single issue parties.
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Re: Politics of the British Isles

Post by Karha of Honor »

The Romulan Republic wrote:On the one hand, its appalling that a party could, through shear incompetence and cowardly self-interest, lead its country into a situation that may lead to the literal disintegration of the country, and yet gain seats.

Hell, even if one supports Brexit in theory, its hard to deny that the Conservative government has failed very badly.

But at the same time, its good to see UKIP get their teeth kicked in. Good riddance to fascist rubbish.
What is a fascists today and how are they fascist?
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Re: Politics of the British Isles

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A Fascist an authoritarian nationalist. Also notable for constraining political and civil rights as well as going on wars of expansion. Economics takes a corporatist bent, incorporating elements of central planning with a free market. Not to be confused with Communists, who are similar but tend to inject a significant dose of economic reform, while lending more slack on civil rights*. A notable fascist is this man:

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-> Wars of expansion in the Caucasus and Ukraine.
-> Constrains the civil rights of LGBT people
-> Has dissidents killed
-> Dubious electoral history

*Red text has been removed, while blue text has been inserted.
Last edited by TGLS on Mon May 08, 2017 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics of the British Isles

Post by Admiral X »

:lol: Yeah, communists are all about the civil rights.
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Re: Politics of the British Isles

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George Orwell wrote an article in the Tribune before the closing of the second world war which sums it up nicely.
George Orwell wrote:Of all the unanswered questions of our time, perhaps the most important is: ‘What is Fascism?’

One of the social survey organizations in America recently asked this question of a hundred different people, and got answers ranging from ‘pure democracy’ to ‘pure diabolism’. In this country if you ask the average thinking person to define Fascism, he usually answers by pointing to the German and Italian régimes. But this is very unsatisfactory, because even the major Fascist states differ from one another a good deal in structure and ideology.

It is not easy, for instance, to fit Germany and Japan into the same framework, and it is even harder with some of the small states which are describable as Fascist. It is usually assumed, for instance, that Fascism is inherently warlike, that it thrives in an atmosphere of war hysteria and can only solve its economic problems by means of war preparation or foreign conquests. But clearly this is not true of, say, Portugal or the various South American dictatorships. Or again, antisemitism is supposed to be one of the distinguishing marks of Fascism; but some Fascist movements are not antisemitic. Learned controversies, reverberating for years on end in American magazines, have not even been able to determine whether or not Fascism is a form of capitalism. But still, when we apply the term ‘Fascism’ to Germany or Japan or Mussolini's Italy, we know broadly what we mean. It is in internal politics that this word has lost the last vestige of meaning. For if you examine the press you will find that there is almost no set of people — certainly no political party or organized body of any kind — which has not been denounced as Fascist during the past ten years. Here I am not speaking of the verbal use of the term ‘Fascist’. I am speaking of what I have seen in print. I have seen the words ‘Fascist in sympathy’, or ‘of Fascist tendency’, or just plain ‘Fascist’, applied in all seriousness to the following bodies of people:

Conservatives: All Conservatives, appeasers or anti-appeasers, are held to be subjectively pro-Fascist. British rule in India and the Colonies is held to be indistinguishable from Nazism. Organizations of what one might call a patriotic and traditional type are labelled crypto-Fascist or ‘Fascist-minded’. Examples are the Boy Scouts, the Metropolitan Police, M.I.5, the British Legion. Key phrase: ‘The public schools are breeding-grounds of Fascism’.

Socialists: Defenders of old-style capitalism (example, Sir Ernest Benn) maintain that Socialism and Fascism are the same thing. Some Catholic journalists maintain that Socialists have been the principal collaborators in the Nazi-occupied countries. The same accusation is made from a different angle by the Communist party during its ultra-Left phases. In the period 1930-35 the Daily Worker habitually referred to the Labour Party as the Labour Fascists. This is echoed by other Left extremists such as Anarchists. Some Indian Nationalists consider the British trade unions to be Fascist organizations.

Communists: A considerable school of thought (examples, Rauschning, Peter Drucker, James Burnham, F. A. Voigt) refuses to recognize a difference between the Nazi and Soviet régimes, and holds that all Fascists and Communists are aiming at approximately the same thing and are even to some extent the same people. Leaders in The Times (pre-war) have referred to the U.S.S.R. as a ‘Fascist country’. Again from a different angle this is echoed by Anarchists and Trotskyists.

Trotskyists: Communists charge the Trotskyists proper, i.e. Trotsky's own organization, with being a crypto-Fascist organization in Nazi pay. This was widely believed on the Left during the Popular Front period. In their ultra-Right phases the Communists tend to apply the same accusation to all factions to the Left of themselves, e.g. Common Wealth or the I.L.P.

Catholics: Outside its own ranks, the Catholic Church is almost universally regarded as pro-Fascist, both objectively and subjectively;

War resisters: Pacifists and others who are anti-war are frequently accused not only of making things easier for the Axis, but of becoming tinged with pro-Fascist feeling.
Supporters of the war: War resisters usually base their case on the claim that British imperialism is worse than Nazism, and tend to apply the term ‘Fascist’ to anyone who wishes for a military victory. The supporters of the People's Convention came near to claiming that willingness to resist a Nazi invasion was a sign of Fascist sympathies. The Home Guard was denounced as a Fascist organization as soon as it appeared. In addition, the whole of the Left tends to equate militarism with Fascism. Politically conscious private soldiers nearly always refer to their officers as ‘Fascist-minded’ or ‘natural Fascists’. Battle-schools, spit and polish, saluting of officers are all considered conducive to Fascism. Before the war, joining the Territorials was regarded as a sign of Fascist tendencies. Conscription and a professional army are both denounced as Fascist phenomena.

Nationalists: Nationalism is universally regarded as inherently Fascist, but this is held only to apply to such national movements as the speaker happens to disapprove of. Arab nationalism, Polish nationalism, Finnish nationalism, the Indian Congress Party, the Muslim League, Zionism, and the I.R.A. are all described as Fascist but not by the same people.



It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

Yet underneath all this mess there does lie a kind of buried meaning. To begin with, it is clear that there are very great differences, some of them easy to point out and not easy to explain away, between the régimes called Fascist and those called democratic. Secondly, if ‘Fascist’ means ‘in sympathy with Hitler’, some of the accusations I have listed above are obviously very much more justified than others. Thirdly, even the people who recklessly fling the word ‘Fascist’ in every direction attach at any rate an emotional significance to it. By ‘Fascism’ they mean, roughly speaking, something cruel, unscrupulous, arrogant, obscurantist, anti-liberal and anti-working-class. Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come.

But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword.
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Re: Politics of the British Isles

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Admiral X wrote: :lol: Yeah, communists are all about the civil rights.
OK, it's a bit of a stretch to argue that communists are pro-civil rights. But, I'd hardly say that communists are as anti-civil rights as fascists. Most of the rhetoric communists use revolves around "equality" and that the main divide between people is economic. If, for example, the south of the 1850's was taken over by communists, I doubt slavery as it stood would have continued to exist. Of course, on the other hand, there still is the sharply racialist North Korean regime, and the abuses of Stalinist Russia (Katyn Forest Massacre and The Holodomor).
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Re: Politics of the British Isles

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I'd say they're every bit as against civil rights as fascists. They simply opposite sides of the same authoritarian coin. This can be seen in every regime that has been ruled by communism, and Stalin was hardly the only one to kill millions of people under his rule. Mao Zedong and Castro were also plenty bloodthirsty, just as examples. I find it somewhat laughable that there seems to be as much excuse-making for communism as there is, as if it's just a case of no one doing it quite right yet. Just flipping that around and suggesting the same for fascism shows how ridiculous that idea is. :lol:
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