Code Geass

[aceina]

code geass is one of my fave anime of all time been waiting along time for this one

[Jonathan101]

I'm annoyed that Chuck calls it "The Revolution".

I've always known it as "Lelouch of the Rebellion".

He's reviewing the dub rather than the sub so maybe that is it, but "Rebellion" sounds cooler to my ears.

[aceina]

where did you get the idea he is reviewing the sub?

[Jonathan101]

Got them backwards. Edited.

[tenkiforecast]

Ah, Code Trainwreck, a show that had a lot of good going for it in Season 1 that, IMO, wasted almost all of it.

It's another show that fails when the developers go for grand, sweeping scales when the small-scale conflicts and ethical questions make the show engaging. Is Lelouch really justified, and are his actions worth the damage done to his friends and family (non-psychotic family, at least)?

However, a lot of those themes can get lost when you have executive meddling only a few tiers below the cancellation of Doctor Who in regards to the second season.

There are a lot of moments throughout season 1 that really do make the viewer question Lelouch's actions because they have that emotional weight--it takes the large battle sequences, which in S1 I really like, and fills in the human tragedy. Not everyone is a monster, and Lelouch's actions in seeking revenge hurt the innocent and the guilty. I find him to be a really engaging protagonist because he struggles with that very fact. That, and Lelouch screws up repeatedly--he's nowhere near perfect.

Also, I've become more and more disturbed at Japan's insistence on making alt-reality series where Japan is totally the victim and was in no way responsible for anything regarding WWII...mainly because that propaganda has propagated into textbooks, official policy, and cultural understanding. I'm not saying that Japan should be solely blamed since everything involving WWI and WWII was a diplomatic dumpster fire, but responsibility NEEDS to be accepted and acknowledged. Not just in Japan, but the US as well, and this ends my tangent.

I really like the Nightmare Frame designs in Code Geass S1. It's a really interesting style of mech design, emphasizing fluid motion and larger maneuver over something like Gundam. I lost interest in the fights the moment they could fly, being land-locked in a sense made the animators play with terrain and setting in a way I enjoyed.

[Cylus]

It's another show that fails when the developers go for grand, sweeping scales when the small-scale conflicts and ethical questions make the show engaging. Is Lelouch really justified, and are his actions worth the damage done to his friends and family (non-psychotic family, at least)?

However, a lot of those themes can get lost when you have executive meddling only a few tiers below the cancellation of Doctor Who in regards to the second season.

I'd tend to disagree, because I don't think those themes were "lost" during the second season. It's more like they became surrounded by additional distractions and the pacing felt more uneven. But, for better or for worse, I think that in the grand scheme of things it all eventually does tie back to the central concepts of the show. There's still a fair amount of things that can be criticized about Code Geass R2 in terms of its execution as a journey, so to speak, but for me the destination isn't one of them. In other words, I think the series did work itself out better thematically than narratively.

Also, I've become more and more disturbed at Japan's insistence on making alt-reality series where Japan is totally the victim and was in no way responsible for anything regarding WWII...mainly because that propaganda has propagated into textbooks, official policy, and cultural understanding. I'm not saying that Japan should be solely blamed since everything involving WWI and WWII was a diplomatic dumpster fire, but responsibility NEEDS to be accepted and acknowledged. Not just in Japan, but the US as well, and this ends my tangent.

I can absolutely agree with you about how poorly Japanese society and its elected governments have usually treated their historical participation in World War II, with a few notable exceptions, but I think we should be careful about automatically mixing that with specific works of fiction every time we see any superficial parallels. Each individual work should be analyzed in detail first.

Not doing so can lead to misunderstanding and even errors in judgment. Just like how I am not automatically blaming all military-related productions made in the United States for somehow being part of a denial of the fallout and consequences of several American military interventions in various countries around the world. But I digress.

First off, I think Code Geass actually does a few things right. Lelouch is not a Japanese nationalist and never claims that Japan is somehow inherently culturally, spiritually or ethically superior to Britannia. He even opposes some Japanese characters, like the JLF group, that have an actual desire to resurrect the "old" Japan with all of its militarist ways. In fact, what he promotes as Zero is a more open-minded platform based on cooperation and tolerance, not the domination of one country over the other. For someone who can be considered as a selfish character, he had a wider view about the world than other members of the cast. You could even argue that, by showing the racial hierarchy and discrimination imposed by the Britannians as evil, parts of the show may also be read as indirectly criticizing the sort of policies that Japan itself used when it invaded other countries too.

Second, this isn't really brought up often enough, but people should try to remember that this show was produced only three years after the U.S. had invaded Iraq and while the occupation was still ongoing. As a result, there were valid reasons why many people around the world, including within Japan itself, may have wanted to criticize and react against what was happening over there. Even from a purely subconscious level, that sort of environment has an influence on the folks who were involved in creating fiction.

I really like the Nightmare Frame designs in Code Geass S1. It's a really interesting style of mech design, emphasizing fluid motion and larger maneuver over something like Gundam. I lost interest in the fights the moment they could fly, being land-locked in a sense made the animators play with terrain and setting in a way I enjoyed.

In that regard we're much more in agreement. There's still one or two mecha fights that I'd consider to be decent or good even after the technological escalation, but in general S1 did handle those better. Which is why I wasn't expecting the final duel of the anime to be as cool as it turned out.

[tenkiforecast]

I'd tend to disagree, because I don't think those themes were "lost" during the second season. It's more like they became surrounded by additional distractions and the pacing felt more uneven. But, for better or for worse, I think that in the grand scheme of things it all eventually does tie back to the central concepts of the show. There's still a fair amount of things that can be criticized about Code Geass R2 in terms of its execution as a journey, so to speak, but for me the destination isn't one of them. In other words, I think the series did work itself out better thematically than narratively.

True. I think it was too disorganized for me. I wonder what the season would have been like without the extensive executive meddling. Even then, I'm not sure how much I'd appreciate it, I increasingly like series that keep the overall scope small--think in terms of seeing JRPGs that don't involve the player defeating gods, instead focusing on smaller-scale conflicts as the example. That's just my preference though, and it's not like Code Geass lost EVERYTHING that made it work in Season 2, I was just disappointed compared to season 1.

Not doing so can lead to misunderstanding and even errors in judgment. Just like how I am not automatically blaming all military-related productions made in the United States for somehow being part of a denial of the fallout and consequences of several American military interventions in various countries around the world. But I digress.

First off, I think Code Geass actually does a few things right. Lelouch is not a Japanese nationalist and never claims that Japan is somehow inherently culturally, spiritually or ethically superior to Britannia. He even opposes some Japanese characters, like the JLF group, that have an actual desire to resurrect the "old" Japan with all of its militarist ways. In fact, what he promotes as Zero is a more open-minded platform based on cooperation and tolerance, not the domination of one country over the other. For someone who can be considerd as a selfish character, he had a wider view about the world than other members of the cast. You could even argue that, by showing the racial hierarchy and discrimination imposed by the Britannians as evil, parts of the show may also be read as indirectly criticizing the sort of policies that Japan itself used when it invaded other countries too.

Second, this isn't really brought up often enough, but people should try to remember that this show was produced only three years after the U.S. had invaded Iraq and while the occupation was still ongoing. As a result, there were valid reasons why many people around the world, including within Japan itself, may have wanted to criticize and react against what was happening over there. Even from a purely subconscious level, that sort of environment has an influence on the folks who were involved in creating fiction.

True. Code Geass is far from the worst offender and I was commenting on the overall trend rather than an indictment of the series itself, though I didn't say as much, so point conceded. You are right, the series goes out of its way to show everyone's a person and that the entire racial caste system is flat out wrong. Imperialism itself is the overall villain in the narrative, though the gratuitous Pizza Hut advertising undermines it a bit (PIZZA HUT SUPPORTS THE REBELLION).

I actually use Metal Wolf Chaos as one of the premier examples of Japanese commentary on US military involvement, believe it or not. Miyazaki tried to as well with Howl's Moving Castle, and I have thoughts on that film off in another tangent elsewhere. I never put the response to the Iraq War in regards to Code Geass, and it's an interesting thought.

[Mickey_Rat15]

You know, SF really can just pronounce Kallen’s name as “Colin”. If anyone’s going to get self-righteous about it, they’d already be getting upset with his decision to watch dubs. Besides, I don’t think anyone is going to match “The way he pronounced “Killua” makes me want to kill myself” in terms of unbelievable stubbornness on Jap name pronounciation.

There are fewer things more stubborn than an anime/manga geek who has determined for himself how a character name appearing in Japanese should to be spelled in the Latin alphabet, even when the author of the story clearly indicates a preference that disagrees with him.

[BunBun299]

So, never seen this anime. But from the review, our protagonist is basically Killgrave? Am I understanding that right?

[Jonathan101]

So, never seen this anime. But from the review, our protagonist is basically Killgrave? Am I understanding that right?

Eh, sort of- his powers have much stricter limits, some of which will be explored later.

Also, that comparison really does just extend only to his powers- in terms of personality and goals they two are very, very different. Kilgrave was a short-sighted hedonist; Lelouch is a visionary genius with a grudge.

If you've ever seen Death Note, he's much closer to Light Yagami, albeit more complex and sympathetic and less of a raging God complex.