Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker

[Jonathan101]

Not simply the subject matter, but the story.

The problem with the subversions of TLJ is that it messed with the narrative set-up that came before it, both in previous movie and in all the other ones, making them feel like a waste.

In other words, a shocking swerve- a twist for the sake of a twist, no matter the consequences to what's going on around it.

[Yukaphile]

Precisely what's needed in The Empire Strikes Back 2.0 of the sequel trilogy.

Again, I'm calling it now. They're gonna rip off Dark Empire somehow, but it won't be executed as good as that comic was. Namely, that Palpatine probably had clones somehow. The only thing that could save his "I'm Luke's grandfather" idea would be if he was legitimately biologically in their family tree, but it's already been confirmed the EU ripped off Legends, so that's the direction Abrams is going for. Hell, this movie, again, is clearly fan pandering to the highest level. Only thing that's missing is Han Solo.

And for those who wonder why I don't stop bitching about the Legends stuff, it's that you literally can't have it both ways! This was a reboot, a fresh chance with a new slate to do something interesting. But Hollywood only cares about money, and they're running out of ideas, so the new EU is just as derivative as, say, Voyager was of Babylon 5, Doctor Who, and other sci-fi that preceded it. They should have stuck to their guns and refused to cherry-pick Legends elements to throw into the new canon, because without their Legends backdrop, it's not really those characters, are they? Hell, I hear Thrawn acted out of character in the Disney canon. And it all could have been avoided if they had been more responsible and handled the initial decision to terminate Legends better. Say it's a separate continuity with layers of canon, and don't cite George! Don't shield yourself behind a creator's love for the art of his babies. They should also have reassured fans it was just in stasis, and could be brought back at any time. Shit, Timothy Zahn had to do just that, but he's an artist, not a corporate sellout. So again, what they did in 2014 is fully consistent with the disconnect that's going on now, and the egocentrism that goes into the new Star Wars universe. And so long as they make money, and trust me, this is likely to make huge amounts of money for the rest of our lifetimes, they don't care, and will continue pumping out shitty films like this. Wait'll it hits Revenge of the Fallen levels.

[Jonathan101]

Hell, I hear Thrawn acted out of character in the Disney canon.

Hmm...He might have in the books and comics- haven't read them (though what I've read of them seemed fine, more or less), but in the Rebels show he was perfectly in-character as far as I could tell.

Main problem with the show was the sheer amount of padding it had as only a handful of episodes mattered to the overall story, which for Thrawn meant he had a few too many "Let them have this victory- my bigger plan unfolds" moments purely for the sake of dragging things out. But that isn't really a flaw in the character so much as the narrative.

[Yukaphile]

He freaked out over art or something. Which I can't see Thrawn doing. Then again, this came from another angry Legends fanboy, so take it as it is.

[Karha of Honor]

Hell, I hear Thrawn acted out of character in the Disney canon.

Main problem with the show was the sheer amount of padding it had as only a handful of episodes mattered to the overall story, which for Thrawn meant he had a few too many "Let them have this victory- my bigger plan unfolds" moments purely for the sake of dragging things out. But that isn't really a flaw in the character so much as the narrative.

I know.

What it could had been...

[Jonathan101]

He freaked out over art or something. Which I can't see Thrawn doing. Then again, this came from another angry Legends fanboy, so take it as it is.

He didn't freak out over art.

He got angry with a particular Imperial officer who was disrespecting the art and culture of the Twi'Lek people. Said officer had been doing that throughout the episode and had proven himself incompetent enough that the only reason Thrawn was there was to win the war against the Twi'lek people for the guy.

Thrawn was calm, cool and collected throughout and the guy finally got on his nerves...for a brief moment, then Thrawn regain his composure. Even in-universe, it was out-of-character for him, and it exists for a purpose- to demonstrate that Thrawn himself is hyper-competent but in the Empire he is surrounded by idiots.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX5N1r_ ... gs=pl%2Cwn[/youtube]

[Wargriffin]

My first thought was... welp Rian getting a walk to the backshed to get the figurative bullet in the brain


Cause this is a classic "Guys We know we screwed up... so We're gonna make it all better!"


Also Called it... Snoke's gone, Here comes Palpy to save the First order's incompetent asses

I think Writers need to learn that subversion and deconstruction only really work if the subject matter allow for it.

I don't want this subversion shit with the OT heroes. It was great in Kotor 2.

Kotor 2 can get away with it cause Chris 'He even admits it' that the scenario is largely you having to rely on someone whose HEAVILY biased in their opinion on the matter. Kotor2 is subversive but it never tries and pretends its being objective in that subversion

TLJ is kinda like Man of Steel or Dawn of Justice... Its trying to be thought provoking by trying to DIRTY up the subject... when in reality its someone WHO thinks they known how to write subversively but fail cause they have no point behind it.

Kriea may be a bitter Revenge obsessed old bitch... but I can see her point.

TLJ problem is its trying to tell me something but then contradicts itself and then basically has a nihilistic WE ALL DESERVE TO DIE!!! LIFE IS POINTLESS SHOT URSELF NAO cause the new generation are EVEN worse the old generation cause they can't even stand up for something right but then the Old generation that the film spent all the time taking the piss out suddenly shows up to save the day... so maybe JUST maybe the new generation can sort its shit out

He freaked out over art or something. Which I can't see Thrawn doing. Then again, this came from another angry Legends fanboy, so take it as it is.

He didn't freak out over art.

He got angry with a particular Imperial officer who was disrespecting the art and culture of the Twi'Lek people. Said officer had been doing that throughout the episode and had proven himself incompetent enough that the only reason Thrawn was there was to win the war against the Twi'lek people for the guy.

Thrawn was calm, cool and collected throughout and the guy finally got on his nerves...for a brief moment, then Thrawn regain his composure. Even in-universe, it was out-of-character for him, and it exists for a purpose- to demonstrate that Thrawn himself is hyper-competent but in the Empire he is surrounded by idiots.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX5N1r_ ... gs=pl%2Cwn[/youtube]

At this point its a documented case that Yuka hates the NEW EU on the simple matter that its the New EU... even though the Old EU really wasn't all that great in retrospect and had burnt itself down post NJO

Yuka will basically believe anything that confirms his bias that the New EU and any handling of old EU elements is Terribad by default

even though Zahn himself commended the Rebels crew for their handling of Thrawn and this is the guy that Wrote an entire duology that was basically a Roast of the entire EU up to the Del rey purchase

Zahn doesn't pull punches,

[Yukaphile]

Actually, I'll confirm that was a case where I was mistaken. Won't admit to being biased and still a bitter fanboy about Legends, but my information literally came from a YouTube video from an angry fanboy. Not the most reliable source, yes, but then, meh. I just think it's pointless to throw Legends characters into the new canon. Because it will never be enough to satisfy fans unless Lucasfilm just goes back on their decision and says, "Okay, fine, Legends has layers of canon and it's canon in another universe, you happy now?" It would be great if they did, but I don't see those control freaks doing that. But even ignoring that, it's derivative and unoriginal. One could argue parallel timelines, but then... do you really see Star Wars becoming anything like the DC or Marvel multiverses in the future, with stuff like how Earth-1 and Earth-2 Superman had to fight together during the Crisis on Infinite Earths? No, I don't. Because if that did happen, it'd be just crazy enough to be crazy epic, and I'd have to completely reevaluate Disney canon. But that's not what's gonna happen. Hell, like with Trek, I see dark times ahead for the franchise, with future movies continuing to rip off Legends or play it safe to appeal to nostalgia, and it could definitely go the way Trek did when it tried that. Especially since I'm still waiting for Hollywood to implode like Lucas and Spielberg predicted.

[Jonathan101]

I think Thrawn was probably the best thing that ever happened to Rebels (not that this is saying much) so I do think he served the purpose of improving the show, even though it was a mistake to ever de-canonise him to begin with (and both the show and Zahn do try and minimise the differences between Legends-Thrawn and New Canon Thrawn as much as possible; Thrawn doesn't die in Rebels but basically ends up in the Unknown Regions, and Zahn's newer books basically pick up where his Legends book Outbound Flight left him off (with the twist that the Chiss never really exiled him but that he is, in fact, still secretly working for them even while serving the Empire).

I do think that Season 3 of Rebels- which is where Thrawn shows up- could work very well if someone edited it down to something like a 3 hour movie, ignoring the dozen or so superfluous episodes and instead giving us a much more tight, coherent story. The two best episodes of that whole show are probably the Season 3 two-part finale where he finally launches his attack against the Rebel scum and shows off his military genius.

He's not quite how I envisioned Thrawn from the books, but he's close enough that I'm happy with him, and I'm glad that the show mostly showed him as a ruthless Lawful Evil villain again and didn't make him out to be a dark anti-hero who is secretly well-intentioned like Zahn sometimes ended up doing in later stories.

[Yukaphile]

Shouldn't have tried to hide behind George to say Legends was never canon. And now all they're doing is trying to pander to Legends fanboys instead of giving them what they want. This half-assed routine is just making everyone mad.