Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker

[Yukaphile]

That brings them to a level of comic book superhero that they were never meant to be. Like how at the time of the Frieza and Cell Sagas, for example, Goku was just one Saiyan with slightly unique talents, but still nothing that special to his race. Vegeta had the same abilities. Come Buu Saga, and Vegeta himself was talking about rare his strength was. Yes. Also, doesn't this contradict the prequels? I know people hate them, but you can't pretend they didn't exist, in that Anakin was just a normal farm boy, and despite being the Chosen One, failed them all. There's no way they'd want him to succeed them. Hell, even Luke fucking failed in this continuity, not like in Legends, so... I'm not seeing the potential for this, tbh.

[MrL1992]

That brings them to a level of comic book superhero that they were never meant to be. Like how at the time of the Frieza and Cell Sagas, for example, Goku was just one Saiyan with slightly unique talents, but still nothing that special to his race. Vegeta had the same abilities. Come Buu Saga, and Vegeta himself was talking about rare his strength was. Yes. Also, doesn't this contradict the prequels? I know people hate them, but you can't pretend they didn't exist, in that Anakin was just a normal farm boy, and despite being the Chosen One, failed them all. There's no way they'd want him to succeed them. Hell, even Luke fucking failed in this continuity, not like in Legends, so... I'm not seeing the potential for this, tbh.

How? It would signal a change in philosophy, not ability. The failures of the actual Luke Skywalker don't metter, its the legend, the idealised story.

[Yukaphile]

If your successors are literally two Jedi who failed and led the galaxy to ruin, then maybe it's time to think about new leaders. Because for three generations now, it's just been nothing but Skywalkers, Skywalkers, Skywalkers. Everything seems to revolve around them now, like it does for Superman in DC, or Goku in Dragon Ball Z.

[Jonathan101]

The thing with naming it after Luke is that it he talked about how it was "vanity" for the Jedi to think that they controlled the Force (not that they ever did but that's another gripe), and Rey mostly knew him as a grumpy old man who lost his way and only came through at the 11th hour (which she presumably heard second hand since she wasn't there).

Then she's naming an entire new Order after this guy, which basically seems like the opposite of what Luke would have wanted or said.

It also raises questions about the next generation of villains - Luke said the Jedi needed to end because Sidious rose up and conquered the galaxy to balance things out (not what Lucas meant by "balance" but admittedly he could have explained it more clearly in the actual movies); a Skywalker order or whatever Rey comes up with presumably then is meant to be free of this problem...somehow.

Except we don't actually know HOW this new Order is going to be different from the Jedi order other than name, and no matter how different it is the Rule of Drama demands that new villains rise up to challenge them- either these villains will be grossly incompetent (moreso than the First Order, who got a lot of off-screen victories) or they do in fact manage to be about as much of a menace as Palaptine was...in which case the whole premise of the new order is a failure; should they scrap that and make yet another new one?

It just reeks of scapegoating the Jedi for Sidious coming to power, and given that the Jedi were very deliberately targeted and purged by Sidious, that sounds like victim blaming.

[Yukaphile]

Holy shit, what the hell? No wonder hardcore fanboys hated Last Jedi. The Jedi themselves preached surrendering to the Force, subsuming your feelings and thoughts and self into you become one with it. Even Legends was consistent on that! OMG! The Jedi might have felt they owned the Republic, though, tbh, or the world, given they were very much like religious moral crusaders, and I've compared them to that before. But that? SMH

... Jesus Christ, this is just more fan pandering... how can people be so blind as to not see this?

Actually, that's my personal view. 10,000 super-light Jedi and two super-dark Sith is not balance. And I see the Jedi as being just as flawed, arrogant, and nasty in their own way. So at least credit Last Jedi with that much, and Lord knows it needs what it can get. Now I think I'm starting to suspect why some people, at least, like this film. I'd highly recommend KOTOR 2 over that, though. Luke is just not built for the Kreia archetype, at ALL.

They're turning the goddamn Skywalkers into... the Flashes or the Kryptonians or the Green Lanterns... what the fuck? It should be the Jedi, not... Skywalkers... OMG! Where is this franchise going?

Well, they should share some of the blame, eh? They guessed wrong at every chance. Granted, no idea what the prequel era canon EU is like, but for Legends, they assumed it would be the Sith fighting the war like it was all those thousands of years ago, instead of realizing they'd reforged themselves, and changed and evolved, and they needed to do the same.

[Yukaphile]

You know... the sequel trilogy is going to end up just as tonally disconnected from the original trilogy as the prequels are, but at least the prequels feel like they had a lot of good ideas, but the problem is, in 20 years, will anyone even remember them? I doubt it. And it really does make everything that happened in the original trilogy pointless, how the Jedi were treated as warm, wise, and superhuman beings of light. Granted, this is just following in the footsteps of what the prequels did, but... at least the prequels Legends stories had more flair to them that were a billion times more engaging than anything Hollywood has thrown out lately. Sigh... again, what's happening to this franchise?

[Makeshift Python]

Hahahahaha already predicting how the ST will be perceived by generations of fans before it even finished.

Angry fans said the same thing of the PT... completely underestimating how there would be a generation that grew up to ADORE those films and are now all grown up cheering for Hayden Christensen.



youtu.be/plJb6urme_Y

[Yukaphile]

Let's not pretend they're good movies, okay? And a lot of that falls on Lucas and his lazy approach to the craft (he was more interested in the technical details).

[Yukaphile]

Also, your post was a bit confusing. Was that disparaging or meant to praise the sequels?

[Makeshift Python]

It’s not about whether the films are good or bad. And I’ve already made my point that the ST isn’t even finished yet, so how it will be perceived in the long run is yet to be known.