Yet Another Last Jedi Review

[Yukaphile]

Some people might mistake him for a Sue in the "author insert" character, and frankly, if Star Wars were real, we'd all wanna be swept away and trained with the Force that way. Though I'd confess I'd end up a Sith. Come on, we all know that. It's as plain as day.

[Jonathan101]

If he's an author insert the means that Lucas sees himself as Darth Vader though. It seems to be really stretching the definition of the term that, because Anakin has something that Lucas may or may not have liked to have happen to himself, that makes Anakin an author insert.

Anakin and George don't seem to have all that much in common, even if Anakin didn't end up as a Sith Lord. Their personalities are pretty different. I suppose they have some interests in common, like how things work and swordfighting, but the Jedi are meant to be the representative of the sort of morality Lucas believes in, and Anakin represents someone who fails to live up to that because of their anger and fear, with disastrous consequences.

[Yukaphile]

Less "author insert" and more "fanboy insert." Sorry, should have clarified. Though some of the romantic dialogue seems just like the kind of stuff George would tell a partner, so... make of that what you will.

[TheOneTrueJack]

Love the use of "Ma-Rey Sue." Though I'm curious if these people would apply Mary Sue to where it belongs when it's a male character? Because I've seen some male Mary Sues.

No, because otherwise Luke and especially Anakin would qualify.

Luke and Anakin are not Stu's. A) They both earned their abilities over YEARS of training instead of in a literal week like Rey and B) to say that Anakin - slayer of innocent children, strangler of wife, betrayer of his oath, torturer of prisoners and killer of millions doesn't have a few flaws is frankly the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. Literally, I am not making that up. You could post a Captain Flashheart clip on here right now and I would still laugh less than with what you just wrote.

Luke's "training" was like 2 days in the swamp with a muppet.

That's one of the things I like most about the new movies. They completely reject the prequel's depiction of Jedi training being something that took years for something much more in line with the original movies.

And if we limit it down to pure fighting skills, the movies establish Rey grew up in shithole and had to learn to fight from when she was literally a child. Her abilities are easily more justified (not that they had to be in the first place, it's a fantasy) than Anakin or Luke.

[Jonathan101]

Love the use of "Ma-Rey Sue." Though I'm curious if these people would apply Mary Sue to where it belongs when it's a male character? Because I've seen some male Mary Sues.

No, because otherwise Luke and especially Anakin would qualify.

Luke and Anakin are not Stu's. A) They both earned their abilities over YEARS of training instead of in a literal week like Rey and B) to say that Anakin - slayer of innocent children, strangler of wife, betrayer of his oath, torturer of prisoners and killer of millions doesn't have a few flaws is frankly the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. Literally, I am not making that up. You could post a Captain Flashheart clip on here right now and I would still laugh less than with what you just wrote.

Luke's "training" was like 2 days in the swamp with a muppet.

That's one of the things I like most about the new movies. They completely reject the prequel's depiction of Jedi training being something that took years for something much more in line with the original movies.

And if we limit it down to pure fighting skills, the movies establish Rey grew up in shithole and had to learn to fight from when she was literally a child. Her abilities are easily more justified (not that they had to be in the first place, it's a fantasy) than Anakin or Luke.

The hyperdrive on the Falcon was damaged, which means that they were there for a long period of time and thus Luke was Yoda for a long while as well (it should actually be several years, even if the Hoth system was right next door to the one Bespin was in, but I digress- the events of the film take place over at least a month). Also, Luke had been training on his own for some time between ANH and TESB- officially, three years passed between both movies.

So, no, it's not at all the case that the OT is closer to the ST than the prequels in regards to training, not least because the OT explicitly shows that they do in fact NEED training and Rey is pulling off Force tricks without receiving any at all even in TFA (like, when she uses the Jedi Mind Trick on Daniel Craigtrooper, which overlooks that Luke himself had no idea the technique even existed until Kenobi told him, so how did she know?).

[Yukaphile]

Yeah, people might joke, but clearly much longer time was passing. Only the most superficial idiots don't get that. Might explain why Abrams had Rey doing what he "thought" Luke was doing, given how shallow his movies tend to be.

[clearspira]

Love the use of "Ma-Rey Sue." Though I'm curious if these people would apply Mary Sue to where it belongs when it's a male character? Because I've seen some male Mary Sues.

No, because otherwise Luke and especially Anakin would qualify.

Luke and Anakin are not Stu's. A) They both earned their abilities over YEARS of training instead of in a literal week like Rey and B) to say that Anakin - slayer of innocent children, strangler of wife, betrayer of his oath, torturer of prisoners and killer of millions doesn't have a few flaws is frankly the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. Literally, I am not making that up. You could post a Captain Flashheart clip on here right now and I would still laugh less than with what you just wrote.

Luke's "training" was like 2 days in the swamp with a muppet.

That's one of the things I like most about the new movies. They completely reject the prequel's depiction of Jedi training being something that took years for something much more in line with the original movies.

And if we limit it down to pure fighting skills, the movies establish Rey grew up in shithole and had to learn to fight from when she was literally a child. Her abilities are easily more justified (not that they had to be in the first place, it's a fantasy) than Anakin or Luke.

Officially a year has passed between ESB and ROJ which means that Luke had a year to practice the foundations of what Yoda taught him. So no, it wasn't just two days. And even then, even if we want to go with the silly 2 days notion, that is STILL more training than Rey received. And he didn't go on to defeat a room full of Snoke's guards effortlessly; he went on to get his ass kicked by Anakin/Vader who was clearly toying with him.

And I can tell you why Jedi training took years in the prequels: compare how unpolished Luke's saber technique is compared to Anakin and Obi Wan in their prime: that is the difference between formal training and no formal training. You cannot just pick up a saber and do all of that shit - unless you are MaRey of course.

[Yukaphile]

Yeah. Disney's current approach? Well, Luke would be a woman, but that's beside the point, is that he'd have gone there and curbstomped Vader, or if not beating him, would have at least, say, maybe damaged him severely. They're really bad storytellers.

And that is because the Jedi were driven into hiding and Force techniques outlawed altogether, except within the Emperor's inner circle.

[Draco Dracul]

Love the use of "Ma-Rey Sue." Though I'm curious if these people would apply Mary Sue to where it belongs when it's a male character? Because I've seen some male Mary Sues.

No, because otherwise Luke and especially Anakin would qualify.

Luke and Anakin are not Stu's. A) They both earned their abilities over YEARS of training instead of in a literal week like Rey and B) to say that Anakin - slayer of innocent children, strangler of wife, betrayer of his oath, torturer of prisoners and killer of millions doesn't have a few flaws is frankly the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. Literally, I am not making that up. You could post a Captain Flashheart clip on here right now and I would still laugh less than with what you just wrote.

The sum total of Luke's training is half a day with Obi-Wan and at most a couple weeks with Yoda. Anakin on the other hand is able to win a race it's been deemed impossible for a human to even compete in when he's nine years old and is such a tech genius that he made a pod racer out of scrap as well as C3PO.

[Jonathan101]

Love the use of "Ma-Rey Sue." Though I'm curious if these people would apply Mary Sue to where it belongs when it's a male character? Because I've seen some male Mary Sues.

No, because otherwise Luke and especially Anakin would qualify.

Luke and Anakin are not Stu's. A) They both earned their abilities over YEARS of training instead of in a literal week like Rey and B) to say that Anakin - slayer of innocent children, strangler of wife, betrayer of his oath, torturer of prisoners and killer of millions doesn't have a few flaws is frankly the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. Literally, I am not making that up. You could post a Captain Flashheart clip on here right now and I would still laugh less than with what you just wrote.

The sum total of Luke's training is half a day with Obi-Wan and at most a couple weeks with Yoda. Anakin on the other hand is able to win a race it's been deemed impossible for a human to even compete in when he's nine years old and is such a tech genius that he made a pod racer out of scrap as well as C3PO.

Anakins' abilities are counterbalanced by his personality failings along with the fact that other in the 'verse are able to compete with him in the extraordinary stakes, especially when he was a child, and that's what prevents him from being a Stu. They also don't make THAT big a deal out of the fact that he can make a droid or is the only human to have won a podrace (the latter mostly because Star Wars is teeming with other species who can do it no problem, and Anakin had never won or even finished a race in his life prior to that movie).

And as already said, Luke did not train with Yoda for a couple of weeks- he trained for an unknown period of time that was almost certainly fat longer than it appeared as it would have taken forever for the Falcon to fly from Hoth to Bespin, especially while trying to evade the Empire. He also spent about three years between ANH and Empire training on his own from whatever lessons Kenobi gave him (or, in the Disney canon, left behind in books at his home). He still gets his ass handed to him when faced with Vader or Palpatine, and in RotJ he's only able to beat the former because Vader was holding back and conflicted.

What makes someone a Sue or Stu isn't just that they are extraordinary; it's about how that is balanced out by their flaws, challenges and conflicts, as well as how fleshed out their character is. And both Anakin and Luke have far more convincing flaws and conflicts than Rey does and have much more developed personalities and relationships.