Trans "women" athletes have advantages over cis women

[clearspira]

https://checkyourfact.com/2019/02/28/fa ... erlifting/

The question becomes, if we are to let people who are born male compete against women, is there any point in even having a separate women's sports category?

I mean, I've got nothing against separating sports by weight class or height or something like that instead of gender.

Your source is spurious and your post inherently transphobic, though, but I didn't expect anything better from an alt-right keyboard warrior.

A boys puberty makes you stronger and faster than a girls puberty. This is scientific fact. As I say I feel sorry for those that did not want a boys puberty but life is unfairly shitty to all.

[Karha of Honor]

There’s a lot that could be said here. About how the IOC has had guidelines for trans women since 2004 but despite none yet qualifying it’s a big deal NOW suddenly.

Why would this be surprising? I know I keep saying this, but until recently, there haven't been very many transwomen around. There still aren't very many around, although there are a lot more than there used to be. Breaking into the highest levels of athletics is really, really hard. Frankly, we shouldn't expect a population as tiny as transwomen to produce any qualifying Olympic athletes.

"Until recently".

Wrong. Until recently, there haven't been many OUT trans women around. Trans women have been a significant population subset, at the very least, since the priestesses of Innana sang prayers in ancient Mesopotamia.

I don't care about what old barbaric places did in the age when a Celtic warrior had the right to abort a baby post birth.

[clearspira]

There’s a lot that could be said here. About how the IOC has had guidelines for trans women since 2004 but despite none yet qualifying it’s a big deal NOW suddenly.

Why would this be surprising? I know I keep saying this, but until recently, there haven't been very many transwomen around. There still aren't very many around, although there are a lot more than there used to be. Breaking into the highest levels of athletics is really, really hard. Frankly, we shouldn't expect a population as tiny as transwomen to produce any qualifying Olympic athletes.

"Until recently".

Wrong. Until recently, there haven't been many OUT trans women around. Trans women have been a significant population subset, at the very least, since the priestesses of Innana sang prayers in ancient Mesopotamia.

I'm not arguing, I'm just interested in knowing what your proof for that is. Certainly I can see how in the ultra patriarchal world that was ancient times why women would want to be men, but that is more for rights than actually wanting a penis. Same goes for less masculine men who would feel their lives would be easier as women seeing as they would be completely shunned in male society back then.

I'm not sure If you can seperate self interest from actual transgenderism in this case.

[Madner Kami]

There are some "alternative" translations to ancient texts, which hint at it, if you read them a certain way and squint a little. It makes much more sense to interpret them more mundanely, either as a description of what happens at certain times of the year, when certain celebrations were... celebrated or a more colorful reminder that woman can be brave too and men need some female qualities to be good people. This is especially true if you consider traditions which have clearly been handed down the ages and are sometimes still part of folklore of today. Just think of the Bacchanalia, where traditional rules of sex, society, dress-code and such were thrown out of the window for a period of time.

Personally I think, this is down to a mixture of modern hubub about gender, sex and stuff and mixing it up with a good amount of neopagan new-age mumbo-jumbo.

[CmdrKing]

Personally I think, this is down to a mixture of modern hubub about gender, sex and stuff and mixing it up with a good amount of neopagan new-age mumbo-jumbo.

There is some tiny seed of truth to the idea that trans people are a "new" concept: cultures with documented history of various third gender identities didn't really approach or conceive them in the way broader euro-centric culture does today, and the way we describe and explore gender and transness is strongly influenced by the scientific method and feminism.
Of course, even by that metric we have documented trans people going back over a hundred years, albeit the research was lost when *check notes* the literal Third Reich included the notes in its book burnings in the 30s and so our formal understanding and language for the idea goes back to roughly the 70s at this point.

Which is to say you're not only full of shit, but it stems from an ignorance of the history of your own country. It's wild how well the 20th century effort to pretend there were only two genders succeeded.

Semenya's case is a telling one about the intersection of almost all forms of civil rights. The initial investigation stems unambiguously from open racism, followed by the IAAF's results leaking to the press in a way that's bluntly illegal in most countries. I'd sure as shit get a hell of a fine due to HIPPA laws for such a thing.

We know she has a form of hyperandrogenism that is commonly considered an intersex trait: as best as I can tell, polycystic ovaries, meaning basically her ovaries produce substantially more testosterone and less estrogen than the norm. To my knowledge she does not claim intersex as part of her identity, but this does factor into the misrepresentation of her as a trans woman. Black woman are quite commonly called men by racists seeking to diminish their accomplishments (Serena Williams and Michelle Obama for common examples), and elevated testosterone means Semenya is less overtly feminine than most. Which is probably why the original investigation didn't raise more alarms.

The ruling itself of course draws on the rules meant to quantify the level of medical transition required for trans women to compete, meaning they've succeeded in using many different forms of discrimination as a means to rule lawyer a specific woman out of the picture. Which of course is the end result any trans person could have told you: transphobic rulings and laws will inevitably and by design be used against everyone as a means to enforce stereotypical gender norms and perpetuate patriarchy.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah the modern liberal development of trans awareness is just that, a development fitting into a contemporary framework, but not really detached from what I've read for instance about certain native tribes in America having interbinary identities among certain individuals that were regarded as spiritually special. In a crude manner of speaking, gender as a social construct, one person just takes heavily to the other side heavily so far as to internalize facets. That can be a tale as old as time given gender constructs have existed any time and anywhere. As an aside I don't think it's dictated by patriarchy or respectively opposite liberation from cast responsibility.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

There’s a lot that could be said here. About how the IOC has had guidelines for trans women since 2004 but despite none yet qualifying it’s a big deal NOW suddenly.

Why would this be surprising? I know I keep saying this, but until recently, there haven't been very many transwomen around. There still aren't very many around, although there are a lot more than there used to be. Breaking into the highest levels of athletics is really, really hard. Frankly, we shouldn't expect a population as tiny as transwomen to produce any qualifying Olympic athletes.

"Until recently".

Wrong. Until recently, there haven't been many OUT trans women around. Trans women have been a significant population subset, at the very least, since the priestesses of Innana sang prayers in ancient Mesopotamia.

I'm not arguing, I'm just interested in knowing what your proof for that is. Certainly I can see how in the ultra patriarchal world that was ancient times why women would want to be men, but that is more for rights than actually wanting a penis. Same goes for less masculine men who would feel their lives would be easier as women seeing as they would be completely shunned in male society back then.

I'm not sure If you can seperate self interest from actual transgenderism in this case.

FYI, it's not "Transgenderism", and here's a starter source.
https://hornet.com/stories/how-a-sumeri ... -its-head/

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

There’s a lot that could be said here. About how the IOC has had guidelines for trans women since 2004 but despite none yet qualifying it’s a big deal NOW suddenly.

Why would this be surprising? I know I keep saying this, but until recently, there haven't been very many transwomen around. There still aren't very many around, although there are a lot more than there used to be. Breaking into the highest levels of athletics is really, really hard. Frankly, we shouldn't expect a population as tiny as transwomen to produce any qualifying Olympic athletes.

"Until recently".

Wrong. Until recently, there haven't been many OUT trans women around. Trans women have been a significant population subset, at the very least, since the priestesses of Innana sang prayers in ancient Mesopotamia.

I don't care about what old barbaric places did in the age when a Celtic warrior had the right to abort a baby post birth.

It is a historical fact, whether you care or not. So stop pretending "the transgenders" are a trend that teenagers started on tumblr.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Yeah the modern liberal development of trans awareness is just that, a development fitting into a contemporary framework, but not really detached from what I've read for instance about certain native tribes in America having interbinary identities among certain individuals that were regarded as spiritually special. In a crude manner of speaking, gender as a social construct, one person just takes heavily to the other side heavily so far as to internalize facets. That can be a tale as old as time given gender constructs have existed any time and anywhere. As an aside I don't think it's dictated by patriarchy or respectively opposite liberation from cast responsibility.

Dionysus grant me mcfricking patience.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah the modern liberal development of trans awareness is just that, a development fitting into a contemporary framework, but not really detached from what I've read for instance about certain native tribes in America having interbinary identities among certain individuals that were regarded as spiritually special. In a crude manner of speaking, gender as a social construct, one person just takes heavily to the other side heavily so far as to internalize facets. That can be a tale as old as time given gender constructs have existed any time and anywhere. As an aside I don't think it's dictated by patriarchy or respectively opposite liberation from cast responsibility.

Dionysus grant me mcfricking patience.

I said crudely speaking... Gender's either a social construct or it's not.

And as far as the last sentence, I'm saying that someone that undergoes personal trans development to become a woman isn't doing it to reap the benefits of patriarchy.