Let's talk about the Terrans (Starcraft)

[Wargriffin]

starcraft 2 hurt the Xelnaga, Protoss and Zerg in alot of ways with how it basically redefined their entire relationship

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I don't remember any modern connection between the Xel'naga and Overmind.

Have you played StarCraft 2? I don't quite get what you want to say there.

Not really.

[Madner Kami]

I don't remember any modern connection between the Xel'naga and Overmind.

Have you played StarCraft 2? I don't quite get what you want to say there.

Not really.

Ok, I'll make it short then. The Zerg were scooped up by an evil Xel'Naga and were genetically engineered, to fight the Protoss if need should be. Said Xel'Naga, Amon, genegeneered the Zerg to be hived and slaved into the Overmind-hierarchy, as a means to keep control over the Zerg. The Overmind was sapient and sentient, but did not really have a free will, but was commanded by the directives of keeping the swarm going and keeping the swarm going against the Protoss. The Overmind took notice of Amons intends and managed to sidestep the no free will in order to protect the swarm, by creating the Queen of Blades as a de facto New Overmind, in order to free the swarm from Amon's control.

As you can see, the events of StarCraft 1 are mostly an indirect result of Xel'Naga influence, except for one secret mission, where you stumble upon a Zerg-Protoss-hybrid, which you might or might not have encountered in your play-through. StarCraft 2 now actually brings Amon back and said secret mission ties into that, because Amon and his cronies (among them a fellow Xel'Naga named Emil Narud aka Samir Duran, a name which should be familiar to you) want to create the hybrids as a means to bring Amon back into a new body (he lost his old one at some point, the reasons for which are mostly irrelevant to this short abstract) in order to kill off all life and restart the universe according to Amon's will.

[Mecha82]

From what I remember from SC1 manual Xel'Naga were originally creators of both Protoss and Zerg as way to seek perfection that ended up being destroyed by they own creations so based on that Activision Blizzard really changed them in SC2. I like original idea of them being powerful ancient race that underestimated they own creations.

[Madner Kami]

From what I remember from SC1 manual Xel'Naga were originally creators of both Protoss and Zerg as way to seek perfection that ended up being destroyed by they own creations so based on that Activision Blizzard really changed them in SC2. I like original idea of them being powerful ancient race that underestimated they own creations.

That is all still true, in a certain way. The Xel'Naga discovered and uplifted the Protoss (argueably even fiddled with their genetics), the Protoss ended up realizing that not all Xel'Naga are nice dudes and attempted to shake Amon and his cronies off, successfully, which then lead to Amon fiddling with the Zerg.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah while, the context is refitted a bit, that doesn't seem like a retcon or anything. Seems Madner you're talking about Xel'naga discovering both Zerg and Protoss, whereas I thought they were manifested completely. Also while the zerg/protoss hybrid wasn't too easy to miss, I was not cognizant of Duran being a sleeper agent for Xel'naga, nor was I aware that Queen of Blades was a manifestation of the Overmind. Good stuff.

Weird though, seems like with the major overhaul they did, adding 2 races to Warcraft 3, they might have expanded upon StarCraft forces a bit. Maybe though they wanted to keep SC a more discreet race landscape compared to WC.

[Madner Kami]

Yeah while, the context is refitted a bit, that doesn't seem like a retcon or anything. Seems Madner you're talking about Xel'naga discovering both Zerg and Protoss, whereas I thought they were manifested completely.

You mean as in the Protoss and Zerg were directly created by the Xel'Naga? Yes, that is actually a lore shift there, if I remember right. Lore from StarCraft 1 and Brood War implied that either the Protoss and Zerg were once one species and got split into two, one being the Purity of Essence, the other Purity of Form or that both were completely created from the ground up by the Xel'Naga. My memory is a bit hazy in that regard, but the lore back then was not overtly clear and layed out anyways, so there's that.

The old lore does not contradict the new lore though, so the new arrangement fit in nicely with what was said before. Bent, but not broken, I'd say.

Or did you mean that the Xel'Naga were not manifested as in not being a major faction? Well, the Xel'Naga are essentially all dead. Except for Amon and Narud/Duran, all the other Xel'Naga got zerg'd. I did not want to make things too complicated, because the Xel'Naga are a can of worms that needs more than one paragraph to explain. I'd argue there are no good Xel'Naga and the way they exist, makes it hard to make them an actual faction akin to Terrans, Protoss and Zerg. They are rather completely otherworldly, literally.

Also while the zerg/protoss hybrid wasn't too easy to miss, I was not cognizant of Duran being a sleeper agent for Xel'naga, nor was I aware that Queen of Blades was a manifestation of the Overmind. Good stuff.

Duran's story in SC1 kinda fizzles out into nowhere, if you didn't do the secret mission and the secret mission itself was fairly cryptic, leaving you with the impression that the Zerg/Protoss-hybrid was just another obscure atrocity comitted by whatever major power held sway over the Dominion-territory at the time. In hindsight, it makes a lot of sense though.

Weird though, seems like with the major overhaul they did, adding 2 races to Warcraft 3, they might have expanded upon StarCraft forces a bit. Maybe though they wanted to keep SC a more discreet race landscape compared to WC.

It stands to reason, that they implemented new races in WC in order to lay loose ends for the upcoming MMO. StarCraft doesn't have that benefit, though they introduced a lot of sub-factions for SC2.

[LittleRaven]

starcraft 2 hurt the Xelnaga, Protoss and Zerg in alot of ways with how it basically redefined their entire relationship

I don't think it 'hurt' them at all. Actually, as far as retcons go, this is one of the best ones I've seen.

As a player in SC 1, I was always wondering why the Overmind wanted to 'physically manifest' at all. After all, it's not like it became more powerful or anything. It already had absolute power over the Zerg. The only thing that physically manifesting allowed the Overmind to do was be killed, so it was always a stupid thing to do. Unless, of course, that was the one thing the Overmind wanted from the start.

Now it's true that the new lore does directly contradict the old lore to a degree. In the old lore, the Zerg literally ATE the Xel'Naga, but that was always kind of silly and it's not like any of it was well documented, so whatever.

[Wargriffin]

starcraft 2 hurt the Xelnaga, Protoss and Zerg in alot of ways with how it basically redefined their entire relationship

I don't think it 'hurt' them at all. Actually, as far as retcons go, this is one of the best ones I've seen.

As a player in SC 1, I was always wondering why the Overmind wanted to 'physically manifest' at all. After all, it's not like it became more powerful or anything. It already had absolute power over the Zerg. The only thing that physically manifesting allowed the Overmind to do was be killed, so it was always a stupid thing to do. Unless, of course, that was the one thing the Overmind wanted from the start.

Now it's true that the new lore does directly contradict the old lore to a degree. In the old lore, the Zerg literally ATE the Xel'Naga, but that was always kind of silly and it's not like any of it was well documented, so whatever.

Cause the entire point of the Zerg and Protoss is to merge the Xel'naga greatest creations

Protoss = Purity of Form

Zerg = Purity of Essence


The Overmind had to physically Manifest to absorb the Protoss into itself and thus complete its ultimate drive to become Perfect

Technically the only thing that could have killed the Overmind was Tassadar anything else he'd be like his cerebrate children


The New lore largely kicks the Zerg and Protoss out of their own Myth arcs and robs several characters of Agency just so you can say Space Satan did it

The New lore revolves way to much on making Kerrigan redeemable and Amon being behind everything.... the problem is Amon fucking sucks as a villain.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah while, the context is refitted a bit, that doesn't seem like a retcon or anything. Seems Madner you're talking about Xel'naga discovering both Zerg and Protoss, whereas I thought they were manifested completely.

You mean as in the Protoss and Zerg were directly created by the Xel'Naga? Yes, that is actually a lore shift there, if I remember right. Lore from StarCraft 1 and Brood War implied that either the Protoss and Zerg were once one species and got split into two, one being the Purity of Essence, the other Purity of Form or that both were completely created from the ground up by the Xel'Naga. My memory is a bit hazy in that regard, but the lore back then was not overtly clear and layed out anyways, so there's that.

The old lore does not contradict the new lore though, so the new arrangement fit in nicely with what was said before. Bent, but not broken, I'd say.

Or did you mean that the Xel'Naga were not manifested as in not being a major faction? Well, the Xel'Naga are essentially all dead. Except for Amon and Narud/Duran, all the other Xel'Naga got zerg'd. I did not want to make things too complicated, because the Xel'Naga are a can of worms that needs more than one paragraph to explain. I'd argue there are no good Xel'Naga and the way they exist, makes it hard to make them an actual faction akin to Terrans, Protoss and Zerg. They are rather completely otherworldly, literally.

Also while the zerg/protoss hybrid wasn't too easy to miss, I was not cognizant of Duran being a sleeper agent for Xel'naga, nor was I aware that Queen of Blades was a manifestation of the Overmind. Good stuff.

Duran's story in SC1 kinda fizzles out into nowhere, if you didn't do the secret mission and the secret mission itself was fairly cryptic, leaving you with the impression that the Zerg/Protoss-hybrid was just another obscure atrocity comitted by whatever major power held sway over the Dominion-territory at the time. In hindsight, it makes a lot of sense though.

Weird though, seems like with the major overhaul they did, adding 2 races to Warcraft 3, they might have expanded upon StarCraft forces a bit. Maybe though they wanted to keep SC a more discreet race landscape compared to WC.

It stands to reason, that they implemented new races in WC in order to lay loose ends for the upcoming MMO. StarCraft doesn't have that benefit, though they introduced a lot of sub-factions for SC2.

Are you familiar with the novels as well?