Yeah, the Enterprise itself is probably my biggest design turn-off in the JJ Trek films. The outside is a mess of wonky lines and proportions, with all kinds of details that are out of scale with each other. And somehow they managed to make it even fuglier when they redesigned it for the rebuilding in "Beyond". Cripes, but it's wonky looking. The inside... I like how well-lit it is, but there's just so very, very much wasted space, and the minimalism only makes that space feel even more pointless. Also: supermarket checkout barcode scanners on the bridge consoles? And then there's the "engineering decks", which utterly fail to not look like they're in a building instead of a ship, and are filled with what is obviously chemical plant machinery. Yes, know it was filmed in a brewery; the problem is no one had to tell me that. People rip on the likes of "Space Mutiny" for doing this exact same thing, but when JJ does it, and it's just as obvious, it's good?.
Also the fact that the viewscreen is a window. I don't understand the purpose or appeal of that, either in-universe, or from a production design standpoint. But apparently it's something the Discovery has too, now.
On the plus side though, the uniforms looked great, ground scenery/sets looked great, the shuttlecraft were good pre-TOS designs. Space suits were a bit fancy, but cool looking. The Kelvin was a FANTASTIC design. A little "industrial" on the inside for my taste, and it has the same engine room problem as the Enterprise, but from the outside it was a brilliant pre-TOS ship IMO, and belonged in a better movie. Like the Kelvin, a lot of the background Starfleet ships were good modern proto-TOS designs, and the spacedock/starbase was a perfect TOS-but-modern design. The alien makeups are all good too, both the mains and the extras.
Star Trek: Discovery in trouble?
Re: Star Trek: Discovery in trouble?
Filming in Toronto, you have your easy choice of farm field planet, boreal forest planet, lakefront planet, or giant waterfall planet. I think for the most part we'll be seeing the inside of the green screen planet.excalibur wrote:That first desert planet was entirely CG compared to how Star Trek has done desert
Also, I assume they are ignoring the TOS Klingons in favor of the more modern Klingons but...now redesigning their look further so much that they look like a different species?
I also don't like the idea that they invented a somewhat emphatic species for a crew member that starts his dialogue with either "I sense" or "I feel", basically the Betazoid of this series.
The New Klingons were a bust in Into Darkness and the concept hasn't improved. Unless the new look saves them $200 an extra, I don't even see the point of messing with the fans on this one. Guess we're stuck with it now, though.
As for the Orange Betazoid, I'll take "Stupid things thrown in the trailer that 'mysteriously' disappear before the episode comes out" for 500 loonies.
Some comedy show I didn't know was coming out two weeks ago suddenly has me more excited than the Trek I've been waiting 12 years for. Fascinating.BunBun299 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8aUuFsXRjU
I saw this trailer less than 48 hours before I saw Discovery's. And it honestly feels more like Trek to me than Discovery does.
The music for the trailer is also of a cloth of the Mass Effect soundtrack. And the general harshness of the lighting. Can someone say if they're filming in HDR? There's a lot of washout on my old 24-bit screen...Nessus wrote:It's not a general statement of tech advancement. There's design elements in places there that look like they're influenced by Mass Effect specifically. The Discovery has an N7 racing stripe. The uniforms have a similar silhouette and accent scheme to human and asari clothing in Mass Effect, (particularly the uniforms worn by Anderson and Hackett, but also some of the common civilian outfits). The space suit looks like it could be straight out of Cerberus's armory.Agent Vinod wrote:Our world feels more Mass Effecty than TOS.Redem wrote:I'm intrigue (an sorta suprise it feel like there's a bit of a negative reaction fom a lot of people) while I do admit the design feel more Mass Effect-y than Star Trek, I think it has potential
Don't know if that's the Discovery in the JJ-ified warp field, but the USS Shenzhou flies awfully low for a starship. I'd say it's about the size of the SSV Normandy. Bet they don't have Joker flying it, though.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery in trouble?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I3y3_QmBsQ
Something youtube recommended, and I found interesting enough to share.
If this is indeed a reboot, and not part of the Trek universe I've known and loved since I was a kid, well, that is probably the final nail in the coffin for me. I really do not want a reboot. I accepted it for the Kelvin Timeline, since they were trying to revitalize the series with a new cast, and they had Nimoy appearing as Spock Prime to pass the torch. But really, I do not want a reboot. I want Star Trek to continue. But I guess the only place that will be happening in the foreseeable future is Star Trek Online.
Something youtube recommended, and I found interesting enough to share.
If this is indeed a reboot, and not part of the Trek universe I've known and loved since I was a kid, well, that is probably the final nail in the coffin for me. I really do not want a reboot. I accepted it for the Kelvin Timeline, since they were trying to revitalize the series with a new cast, and they had Nimoy appearing as Spock Prime to pass the torch. But really, I do not want a reboot. I want Star Trek to continue. But I guess the only place that will be happening in the foreseeable future is Star Trek Online.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery in trouble?
Honestly, haven't had an issue with what I've seen so far. Of course, I'm of the opinion that TOS era has been badly in need of a bit of a visual update. I also haven't had too much of an issue with the design and look of the Kelvin-timeline ships (absolutely loved Beyond btw), so I'm probably an outlier.
Viewscreen/Bridge Window? Don't really see an issue with it. I believe there's even some leeway in the original "The Cage" script as to the idea that the 1701 was supposed to have a bridge window. I mean, if we're going to complain that it seems completely impractical in dangerous, so is putting the bridge directly smack dab on top of the saucer (or below as is the case of the Shenzhou). Pretty much everything from the initial trailer looks to be from the pilot, as we're missing quite a few characters, haven't actually seen the Discovery (or her Captain).
Does the series feel Mass Effect? Sure. But remember, Mass Effect was originally billed as being "modern Star Trek", so its pretty much the serpent eating its own tail. Trek has been pretty much left to stagnate until we had the Abrams movies which did bring on some new fans, and as that would be, TOS/Pre-TOS is the defining timeline at the moment. Remember, we're almost 15 years since Nemesis, and TNG being a bankable commodity. There are currently fans who weren't even born yet when VOY was airing on TV.
I'm hopeful that I'll like more as we see it, and I haven't really seen anything so far I haven't liked, and while I'm not an original TOS viewer, I was an original TNG viewer when I was a kid. So much of the disdain appears to be the divide between newer and older fans, and its something that Star Wars has had to deal with as well. (Prequel vs Sequel, there's an entire generation where when they hear Star Wars, they think of Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Ahsoka fighting in the Clone Wars). Even the most recent Star Wars movie releases, we had TFA, which was loved by general audiences, and longtime fans somewhat cooled on after the initial release, and Rogue One which is basically a loveletter to long-time fans. So many of the criticisms levied against TFA are simply answered in that "Hey, this Star Wars isn't for you, its for another generation." and yet Rogue One still manages to cater to those fans.
Trek unfortunately, due to CBS being pants-on-head as well as many of the longtime fans, hasn't had that luxury. So we're stuck with something that's attempting to appeal to a new audience (because lets face it, if it appealed solely to Trek fans, it still wouldn't do well) but make concessions for the old, because TV.
Viewscreen/Bridge Window? Don't really see an issue with it. I believe there's even some leeway in the original "The Cage" script as to the idea that the 1701 was supposed to have a bridge window. I mean, if we're going to complain that it seems completely impractical in dangerous, so is putting the bridge directly smack dab on top of the saucer (or below as is the case of the Shenzhou). Pretty much everything from the initial trailer looks to be from the pilot, as we're missing quite a few characters, haven't actually seen the Discovery (or her Captain).
Does the series feel Mass Effect? Sure. But remember, Mass Effect was originally billed as being "modern Star Trek", so its pretty much the serpent eating its own tail. Trek has been pretty much left to stagnate until we had the Abrams movies which did bring on some new fans, and as that would be, TOS/Pre-TOS is the defining timeline at the moment. Remember, we're almost 15 years since Nemesis, and TNG being a bankable commodity. There are currently fans who weren't even born yet when VOY was airing on TV.
I'm hopeful that I'll like more as we see it, and I haven't really seen anything so far I haven't liked, and while I'm not an original TOS viewer, I was an original TNG viewer when I was a kid. So much of the disdain appears to be the divide between newer and older fans, and its something that Star Wars has had to deal with as well. (Prequel vs Sequel, there's an entire generation where when they hear Star Wars, they think of Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Ahsoka fighting in the Clone Wars). Even the most recent Star Wars movie releases, we had TFA, which was loved by general audiences, and longtime fans somewhat cooled on after the initial release, and Rogue One which is basically a loveletter to long-time fans. So many of the criticisms levied against TFA are simply answered in that "Hey, this Star Wars isn't for you, its for another generation." and yet Rogue One still manages to cater to those fans.
Trek unfortunately, due to CBS being pants-on-head as well as many of the longtime fans, hasn't had that luxury. So we're stuck with something that's attempting to appeal to a new audience (because lets face it, if it appealed solely to Trek fans, it still wouldn't do well) but make concessions for the old, because TV.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery in trouble?
Mostly I just want it to be intelligent, or at least to make the effort. My biggest real issue with the Abrams movies is that they are pretty much gibberish and devoid of even the concept of theme (I haven't seen "Beyond" yet, but I've heard it's a bit of an improvement in this regard).
I don't mind if they retcon willy-nilly, redesign things completely, even actually literally reboot the franchise. I just don't want it to stay in the same quagmire Hollywood is currently in where it's acceptable for a movie's story to not even make the most basic kind of A to B to C plot sense as long as the visuals are flash enough and the marketing is good enough. I'm tired of big genre movies that are just ADD strings of almost unrelated setpieces and contextless fan-service references instead of actual stories, and it makes me sad to see franchise previously known for it's desire to be cerebral (even if it often fell short) get chucked down that well.
Traces of common themes and the attempt to to be intelligent or introspective is all I really need for it to be good Trek. I'll not deny my nostalgia for classic Trek, but I won't deny it's many and often large deficiencies that need improving either.
My issues with the visuals come far, far behind, and are mostly quite negotiable. I think the new Enterprise is wonky-looking, but there've been wonky-looking ships in Trek's past, some of which I love, so it's ultimately all down to association. A wonky ship can be made cool by association with cool story or characters. Even the purely technical bits like external details are negotiable: I love the Excelsior, and it has the exact same scale issues. The only thing that sticks in my craw regardless is that shitty excuse for main engineering.
My reaction to the viewscreen window is mostly the result of watching the extras for the first JJ movie, where JJ rambled at some point about how he never liked or understood why the screen wasn't a window, but without saying why. This left me a bit "WTF?", because a giant picture window serves literally zero purpose on a space ship other than the occasional purely aesthetic view of a planet you're orbiting. Most of the time there is nothing to see, and when there is, it's going to be something a viewscreen will give you a way better view of and way more info about, so it's glaringly pointless. I don't mind that it's there, but the implication that it's somehow needed or was weird by it's previous absence goes in the same WTF bag as excessive lense flares, magic blood, and the complete inability to visualize or conceptualize physical scale.
I don't mind if they retcon willy-nilly, redesign things completely, even actually literally reboot the franchise. I just don't want it to stay in the same quagmire Hollywood is currently in where it's acceptable for a movie's story to not even make the most basic kind of A to B to C plot sense as long as the visuals are flash enough and the marketing is good enough. I'm tired of big genre movies that are just ADD strings of almost unrelated setpieces and contextless fan-service references instead of actual stories, and it makes me sad to see franchise previously known for it's desire to be cerebral (even if it often fell short) get chucked down that well.
Traces of common themes and the attempt to to be intelligent or introspective is all I really need for it to be good Trek. I'll not deny my nostalgia for classic Trek, but I won't deny it's many and often large deficiencies that need improving either.
My issues with the visuals come far, far behind, and are mostly quite negotiable. I think the new Enterprise is wonky-looking, but there've been wonky-looking ships in Trek's past, some of which I love, so it's ultimately all down to association. A wonky ship can be made cool by association with cool story or characters. Even the purely technical bits like external details are negotiable: I love the Excelsior, and it has the exact same scale issues. The only thing that sticks in my craw regardless is that shitty excuse for main engineering.
My reaction to the viewscreen window is mostly the result of watching the extras for the first JJ movie, where JJ rambled at some point about how he never liked or understood why the screen wasn't a window, but without saying why. This left me a bit "WTF?", because a giant picture window serves literally zero purpose on a space ship other than the occasional purely aesthetic view of a planet you're orbiting. Most of the time there is nothing to see, and when there is, it's going to be something a viewscreen will give you a way better view of and way more info about, so it's glaringly pointless. I don't mind that it's there, but the implication that it's somehow needed or was weird by it's previous absence goes in the same WTF bag as excessive lense flares, magic blood, and the complete inability to visualize or conceptualize physical scale.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery in trouble?
Redem wrote:http://www.startrek.com/article/star-tr ... miere-date
We have a release date for september 24th
If this one doesn't stick I don't know what is going to happen, it has been delayed so many times now.
Anyone know when Orville is due to start?
We must dissent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwqN3Ur ... l=matsku84
Re: Star Trek: Discovery in trouble?
I can't find a specific date oddly enough, but it will be on Thursdays at 9:00Robovski wrote:Redem wrote:http://www.startrek.com/article/star-tr ... miere-date
We have a release date for september 24th
If this one doesn't stick I don't know what is going to happen, it has been delayed so many times now.
Anyone know when Orville is due to start?
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Karha of Honor
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LittleRaven
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery in trouble?
Full disclosure: I am an unabashed Trek fan. I want more Star Trek on TV. I am willing for fork out for a streaming service if that's what it takes to get it. I'm...hopeful about Discovery. Mostly because hey, at least someone is actually making SOMETHING. It's been 12 years since we had Star Trek on television. There's a whole generation of kids out there who have never seen a contemporary Trek show.
Now, I admit I got a very 'Mass Effect' vibe from the trailer, but that's to be expected - Mass Effect is far and away the best Sci-Fi franchise I've seen launched in the last decade and a half. Of course it will be looked to for a certain amount of inspiration.
I'm going to echo certain previous posters when I say that I think the biggest hurdle for the new series is going to be that we have a very different zeitgeist today than we did when Trek has historically succeeded. There seems to be very little optimism about the future these days - very little sense that science is going to deliver us into anything but an even bigger mess than we're already in. If there's one thing the left and the right can agree on, it's that the future is going to be awful. Each side imagines different flavors of terrible, but it all ends in Dystopia either way. Star Trek, even Deep Space Nine, always had a strong ray of hope in the human condition at its core. Will that resonate today, at all, with anyone?
I dunno. But I hope so.
Now, I admit I got a very 'Mass Effect' vibe from the trailer, but that's to be expected - Mass Effect is far and away the best Sci-Fi franchise I've seen launched in the last decade and a half. Of course it will be looked to for a certain amount of inspiration.
I'm going to echo certain previous posters when I say that I think the biggest hurdle for the new series is going to be that we have a very different zeitgeist today than we did when Trek has historically succeeded. There seems to be very little optimism about the future these days - very little sense that science is going to deliver us into anything but an even bigger mess than we're already in. If there's one thing the left and the right can agree on, it's that the future is going to be awful. Each side imagines different flavors of terrible, but it all ends in Dystopia either way. Star Trek, even Deep Space Nine, always had a strong ray of hope in the human condition at its core. Will that resonate today, at all, with anyone?
I dunno. But I hope so.
