Researchers find simple way to reduce suicide: Increase the Minimum Wage

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

https://fox59.com/2018/10/23/heres-what ... age-to-15/

[ProfessorDetective]

https://fox59.com/2018/10/23/heres-what ... age-to-15/

1) Thanks.

2) This was done exactly as I was saying gradually over time. They went from $9.47 to $16.00 over five years (which was already higher than average). People want $15 tomorrow, with no ramp up.

3) It looks like most folks only ended up with an extra $10-$20 a week, which... is a couple of meals at least.

4) But employee turnover is down. That's good.

5) The federal min. wage hasn't been increased in a DECADE?! Well, here's your problem, that $7.25 is running off of 2009 economics! Yeah, that needs to be raised. $10. My gut tells me that $10 is a good starting point and then we can ramp up to $15.

6) Okay maybe ramp it to $20, if this Demo bill for $15 by 2024 is legit. That's enough time where inflation might render $15 insufficient, which means we'd be back to square one. These increases need to be incremental and REGULAR.

Okay, thoughts? Ideas? 'You're crazy/out of touch'-es?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

https://fox59.com/2018/10/23/heres-what ... age-to-15/

3) It looks like most folks only ended up with an extra $10-$20 a week, which... is a couple of meals at least.

They're also working less hours.

[ProfessorDetective]

https://fox59.com/2018/10/23/heres-what ... age-to-15/

3) It looks like most folks only ended up with an extra $10-$20 a week, which... is a couple of meals at least.

They're also working less hours.

Oh, I missed that bit. So yeah, it's an improvement, but not as drastic of one as some are hoping.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

A bit overly simplistic. I'm living a pretty comfortable lifestyle, and I've still felt tempted, as people here know.

They said 'reduce' not 'eliminate'. If we only used solutions with a guaranteed 100% success rate, nothing would ever get done.

And honestly, I agree that the min. wage needs to be increased... to maybe $8.00-$8.50. The $15.00 some folks are asking for is insane, that large a jump all at once WILL throw things out of whack. Increases in min. wage are supposed to slightly outpace inflation (about 3% annual, if the Treasury is doing its job) to keep the economy from clogging up (if everyone is broke, then no ones spending, so folks lose jobs and stay broke). This much this quick might cause the stores/corps. to jack up prices to compensate and then everyone is too broke too to spend, etc., etc.. This has to be gradual, it's just a bit TOO gradual at the moment.

But yeah, folks being less broke would give them fewer reasons to give up on it all.

Insane? As somebody dealing with several forms of mental illness, I can tell you that "enough money so that people in many regions can afford a one-bedroom apartment with one full-time job" is not a form of insanity. Raising it to $8.50 an hour would be like pissing on a house fire.

And $15 could be like putting out a house fire by bursting a dam. Maybe an even $10? To be fair, I DON'T work, currently. The job market is dead in my area, and I'm only just recently getting somewhere with that.

I'm under the impression that the people benefited by the minimum wage increase will use a good deal of money for consumption in a lot of impacted retail establishments.

Of course, but unless they go full company town and pay their folks in gift card, they're likely to consider having to pay their people more as a loss and then as an excuse to charge more to compensate for that loss. Then we're back at square one but with higher figures. This is why you raise it slowly, so they don't have a kneejerk reaction to it. It's just going TOO slow, at the moment.

Except they have ALREADY raised the prices, because they do that as much as they can get away with. Food, housing, medical care, all of these prices have skyrocketed since the 70s while the wages remained stagnant as a puddle of bacteria-filled water in the Pirates World parking lot.

People really act as if there was some amount of decency, reasonableness, or even enlightened self-interest in America's megacorps. There is none. People argue "oh if they had to pay workers more, they'd hire less people or jack up prices!" As if they aren't already doing all the price gouging they can get away with. As if they aren't already laying off workers so they can have two overworked people do the jobs of five very badly, and then firing them for not meeting performance goals.

They aren't going to replace people with robots because if they could, they already would have. They aren't going to cut hours or downsize because they've already done as much of that as the market will take, and then some. They'd pay you in coupons if they thought they would get away with it.

They aren't going to "pass the costs on to consumers" because consumers are already fitting all of the costs and the top executives and shareholders are eating it up with next to nothing going to low-level wages, production expenses, or anything like that. Eyeglasses, for example, cost less to make than ever, but are priced like a luxury good because a few shadowy enterprises have cornered the market and jacked prices up as high as they can.

And now some study says "Hey, here's a way we can get fewer people to jump off the roof of their slum building because they don't make enough at their five part-time jobs to keep paying its rent!" and people quibble about the price and economics.

[Robovski]

ProfessorDetective I think that the federal minimum wage needs to be tied to an index so it can be adjusted annually for inflation and cost of living expenses. Unfortunately, at a Federal level that includes the likes of Los Angeles and the state of Kentucky (just to pick some extremes) so you are going to underpay some areas or overpay others. But as you pointed out, it hasn't been increased in a decade, and it should be adjusted up to reflect changing circumstances due to inflation, beats underpaying EVERYBODY.

[ProfessorDetective]

A bit overly simplistic. I'm living a pretty comfortable lifestyle, and I've still felt tempted, as people here know.

They said 'reduce' not 'eliminate'. If we only used solutions with a guaranteed 100% success rate, nothing would ever get done.

And honestly, I agree that the min. wage needs to be increased... to maybe $8.00-$8.50. The $15.00 some folks are asking for is insane, that large a jump all at once WILL throw things out of whack. Increases in min. wage are supposed to slightly outpace inflation (about 3% annual, if the Treasury is doing its job) to keep the economy from clogging up (if everyone is broke, then no ones spending, so folks lose jobs and stay broke). This much this quick might cause the stores/corps. to jack up prices to compensate and then everyone is too broke too to spend, etc., etc.. This has to be gradual, it's just a bit TOO gradual at the moment.

But yeah, folks being less broke would give them fewer reasons to give up on it all.

Insane? As somebody dealing with several forms of mental illness, I can tell you that "enough money so that people in many regions can afford a one-bedroom apartment with one full-time job" is not a form of insanity. Raising it to $8.50 an hour would be like pissing on a house fire.

And $15 could be like putting out a house fire by bursting a dam. Maybe an even $10? To be fair, I DON'T work, currently. The job market is dead in my area, and I'm only just recently getting somewhere with that.

I'm under the impression that the people benefited by the minimum wage increase will use a good deal of money for consumption in a lot of impacted retail establishments.

Of course, but unless they go full company town and pay their folks in gift card, they're likely to consider having to pay their people more as a loss and then as an excuse to charge more to compensate for that loss. Then we're back at square one but with higher figures. This is why you raise it slowly, so they don't have a kneejerk reaction to it. It's just going TOO slow, at the moment.

Except they have ALREADY raised the prices, because they do that as much as they can get away with. Food, housing, medical care, all of these prices have skyrocketed since the 70s while the wages remained stagnant as a puddle of bacteria-filled water in the Pirates World parking lot.

People really act as if there was some amount of decency, reasonableness, or even enlightened self-interest in America's megacorps. There is none. People argue "oh if they had to pay workers more, they'd hire less people or jack up prices!" As if they aren't already doing all the price gouging they can get away with. As if they aren't already laying off workers so they can have two overworked people do the jobs of five very badly, and then firing them for not meeting performance goals.

They aren't going to replace people with robots because if they could, they already would have. They aren't going to cut hours or downsize because they've already done as much of that as the market will take, and then some. They'd pay you in coupons if they thought they would get away with it.

They aren't going to "pass the costs on to consumers" because consumers are already fitting all of the costs and the top executives and shareholders are eating it up with next to nothing going to low-level wages, production expenses, or anything like that. Eyeglasses, for example, cost less to make than ever, but are priced like a luxury good because a few shadowy enterprises have cornered the market and jacked prices up as high as they can.

And now some study says "Hey, here's a way we can get fewer people to jump off the roof of their slum building because they don't make enough at their five part-time jobs to keep paying its rent!" and people quibble about the price and economics.

Which is what I was getting at: let's not given them any MORE reasons to pump us for every red cent they can.

Oh, and don't forget the tax havens. And the corps. that are technically run by holding companies that only exist as a PO Box in Panama or an empty basement in Stockholm.

youtu.be/SFKnv1YzI3k

I follow the Video Gaming Industry rather closely and it's been a fascinating (and terrifying) microcosm of all of this garbage.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

A bit overly simplistic. I'm living a pretty comfortable lifestyle, and I've still felt tempted, as people here know.

They said 'reduce' not 'eliminate'. If we only used solutions with a guaranteed 100% success rate, nothing would ever get done.

And honestly, I agree that the min. wage needs to be increased... to maybe $8.00-$8.50. The $15.00 some folks are asking for is insane, that large a jump all at once WILL throw things out of whack. Increases in min. wage are supposed to slightly outpace inflation (about 3% annual, if the Treasury is doing its job) to keep the economy from clogging up (if everyone is broke, then no ones spending, so folks lose jobs and stay broke). This much this quick might cause the stores/corps. to jack up prices to compensate and then everyone is too broke too to spend, etc., etc.. This has to be gradual, it's just a bit TOO gradual at the moment.

But yeah, folks being less broke would give them fewer reasons to give up on it all.

Insane? As somebody dealing with several forms of mental illness, I can tell you that "enough money so that people in many regions can afford a one-bedroom apartment with one full-time job" is not a form of insanity. Raising it to $8.50 an hour would be like pissing on a house fire.

And $15 could be like putting out a house fire by bursting a dam. Maybe an even $10? To be fair, I DON'T work, currently. The job market is dead in my area, and I'm only just recently getting somewhere with that.

I'm under the impression that the people benefited by the minimum wage increase will use a good deal of money for consumption in a lot of impacted retail establishments.

Of course, but unless they go full company town and pay their folks in gift card, they're likely to consider having to pay their people more as a loss and then as an excuse to charge more to compensate for that loss. Then we're back at square one but with higher figures. This is why you raise it slowly, so they don't have a kneejerk reaction to it. It's just going TOO slow, at the moment.

Except they have ALREADY raised the prices, because they do that as much as they can get away with. Food, housing, medical care, all of these prices have skyrocketed since the 70s while the wages remained stagnant as a puddle of bacteria-filled water in the Pirates World parking lot.

People really act as if there was some amount of decency, reasonableness, or even enlightened self-interest in America's megacorps. There is none. People argue "oh if they had to pay workers more, they'd hire less people or jack up prices!" As if they aren't already doing all the price gouging they can get away with. As if they aren't already laying off workers so they can have two overworked people do the jobs of five very badly, and then firing them for not meeting performance goals.

They aren't going to replace people with robots because if they could, they already would have. They aren't going to cut hours or downsize because they've already done as much of that as the market will take, and then some. They'd pay you in coupons if they thought they would get away with it.

They aren't going to "pass the costs on to consumers" because consumers are already fitting all of the costs and the top executives and shareholders are eating it up with next to nothing going to low-level wages, production expenses, or anything like that. Eyeglasses, for example, cost less to make than ever, but are priced like a luxury good because a few shadowy enterprises have cornered the market and jacked prices up as high as they can.

And now some study says "Hey, here's a way we can get fewer people to jump off the roof of their slum building because they don't make enough at their five part-time jobs to keep paying its rent!" and people quibble about the price and economics.

Which is what I was getting at: let's not given them any MORE reasons to pump us for every red cent they can.

And you are missing MY point, which is that they are ALREADY pumping us for every red cent anyway. Not increasing the minimum wage to a reasonable amount is just making sure more people die while they spend a few minutes in a focus room to come up with a different justification for their price gouging like unfair competition from foreign markets or the trade war with China or whatever.

[ProfessorDetective]

A bit overly simplistic. I'm living a pretty comfortable lifestyle, and I've still felt tempted, as people here know.

They said 'reduce' not 'eliminate'. If we only used solutions with a guaranteed 100% success rate, nothing would ever get done.

And honestly, I agree that the min. wage needs to be increased... to maybe $8.00-$8.50. The $15.00 some folks are asking for is insane, that large a jump all at once WILL throw things out of whack. Increases in min. wage are supposed to slightly outpace inflation (about 3% annual, if the Treasury is doing its job) to keep the economy from clogging up (if everyone is broke, then no ones spending, so folks lose jobs and stay broke). This much this quick might cause the stores/corps. to jack up prices to compensate and then everyone is too broke too to spend, etc., etc.. This has to be gradual, it's just a bit TOO gradual at the moment.

But yeah, folks being less broke would give them fewer reasons to give up on it all.

Insane? As somebody dealing with several forms of mental illness, I can tell you that "enough money so that people in many regions can afford a one-bedroom apartment with one full-time job" is not a form of insanity. Raising it to $8.50 an hour would be like pissing on a house fire.

And $15 could be like putting out a house fire by bursting a dam. Maybe an even $10? To be fair, I DON'T work, currently. The job market is dead in my area, and I'm only just recently getting somewhere with that.

I'm under the impression that the people benefited by the minimum wage increase will use a good deal of money for consumption in a lot of impacted retail establishments.

Of course, but unless they go full company town and pay their folks in gift card, they're likely to consider having to pay their people more as a loss and then as an excuse to charge more to compensate for that loss. Then we're back at square one but with higher figures. This is why you raise it slowly, so they don't have a kneejerk reaction to it. It's just going TOO slow, at the moment.

Except they have ALREADY raised the prices, because they do that as much as they can get away with. Food, housing, medical care, all of these prices have skyrocketed since the 70s while the wages remained stagnant as a puddle of bacteria-filled water in the Pirates World parking lot.

People really act as if there was some amount of decency, reasonableness, or even enlightened self-interest in America's megacorps. There is none. People argue "oh if they had to pay workers more, they'd hire less people or jack up prices!" As if they aren't already doing all the price gouging they can get away with. As if they aren't already laying off workers so they can have two overworked people do the jobs of five very badly, and then firing them for not meeting performance goals.

They aren't going to replace people with robots because if they could, they already would have. They aren't going to cut hours or downsize because they've already done as much of that as the market will take, and then some. They'd pay you in coupons if they thought they would get away with it.

They aren't going to "pass the costs on to consumers" because consumers are already fitting all of the costs and the top executives and shareholders are eating it up with next to nothing going to low-level wages, production expenses, or anything like that. Eyeglasses, for example, cost less to make than ever, but are priced like a luxury good because a few shadowy enterprises have cornered the market and jacked prices up as high as they can.

And now some study says "Hey, here's a way we can get fewer people to jump off the roof of their slum building because they don't make enough at their five part-time jobs to keep paying its rent!" and people quibble about the price and economics.

Which is what I was getting at: let's not given them any MORE reasons to pump us for every red cent they can.

And you are missing MY point, which is that they are ALREADY pumping us for every red cent anyway. Not increasing the minimum wage to a reasonable amount is just making sure more people die while they spend a few minutes in a focus room to come up with a different justification for their price gouging like unfair competition from foreign markets or the trade war with China or whatever.

*sigh* Yeah... Yeah, alright. Fair enough. I just feel like rushing this is going to cause SOMETHING to go wrong. But you're right.

And let's be honest, the 'unfair competition' is probably a wholly-owned subsidiary and they're likely instigating that trade war on purpose.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

They mark up as much as they can, but to put it as if they're bleeding us for every last sense is a bit exaggerated.

If minimum wage was cutting into their profit margin so much then you would see a drastic chizm in the business logistics.