Avengers: Endgame

[CmdrKing]

In a vacuum Tilda Swinton is an excellent cast for an unnaturally long lived sage, so I wouldn't say it pleased nobody.

We just don't live in a vacuum and not offering such a prime role to a community that so rarely gets them is still a misstep.

But more broadly I don't really put any stock in the whole "we can't do that, China!" argument at this point. The phrasing of "edited for Chinese market" is pretty deliberate: it would be *trivial* to nudge Captain Marvel into explicit. A single 5 second scene between Carol and Maria wherein they were physically affectionate or a 10 second exchange using the term "partner" with the right inflection would flow naturally from the existing film. They wouldn't have to change anything, so the existing movie already reads as someone trimming those tiny exchanges to maintain the barest shred of plausible deniability.

[LavarosVA]

In a vacuum Tilda Swinton is an excellent cast for an unnaturally long lived sage, so I wouldn't say it pleased nobody.

We just don't live in a vacuum and not offering such a prime role to a community that so rarely gets them is still a misstep.

But more broadly I don't really put any stock in the whole "we can't do that, China!" argument at this point. The phrasing of "edited for Chinese market" is pretty deliberate: it would be *trivial* to nudge Captain Marvel into explicit. A single 5 second scene between Carol and Maria wherein they were physically affectionate or a 10 second exchange using the term "partner" with the right inflection would flow naturally from the existing film. They wouldn't have to change anything, so the existing movie already reads as someone trimming those tiny exchanges to maintain the barest shred of plausible deniability.

With Tilda Swintons casting I felt it was a damned if they did damned if they didn't kind of thing. You don't want to feed into stereotypes, but running the risk of white washing is always a concern as well.

[CmdrKing]

It's true. But honestly it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue if the MCU had diversified their leading or major supporting characters more aggressively in Phase 2/3.

Although I admit that personally I'd kinda love if they took a page from Avatar's book and had a scene in the next one where Stephen has to talk with the past Sorcerer Supremes, where you could easily have some of his predecessors being properly Tibetan.

[phantom000]

I can't help but wonder if the MCU wrapping up, between Ragnarök and Endgame it seems like the original crew has pretty much had it.

I guess they are trying to bring in the new generation, Dr. Strange, Spiderman and Black Panther but it seems like an odd way to do it, then again i guess Endgame was supposed to be the 'last hurrah' of the original Avengers.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I can't help but wonder if the MCU wrapping up, between Ragnarök and Endgame it seems like the original crew has pretty much had it.

I guess they are trying to bring in the new generation, Dr. Strange, Spiderman and Black Panther but it seems like an odd way to do it, then again i guess Endgame was supposed to be the 'last hurrah' of the original Avengers.

Yes it's been known for a while that Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans have been setting up to leave the franchise.

Feige or someone contends that while Endgame is a bit of a swan song for the group, they're likely to still be around in the future, just not as the centerpiece of everything.

[clearspira]

I can't help but wonder if the MCU wrapping up, between Ragnarök and Endgame it seems like the original crew has pretty much had it.

I guess they are trying to bring in the new generation, Dr. Strange, Spiderman and Black Panther but it seems like an odd way to do it, then again i guess Endgame was supposed to be the 'last hurrah' of the original Avengers.

Sony still owns the rights to Spiderman and all Spiderman villains that debuted in a Spiderman comic (so for example, they technically don't own Kingpin as he debuted in Daredevil). The sharing deal runs out after the next film so Marvel/Disney may not have him for long.

[Jonathan101]

I can't help but wonder if the MCU wrapping up, between Ragnarök and Endgame it seems like the original crew has pretty much had it.

I guess they are trying to bring in the new generation, Dr. Strange, Spiderman and Black Panther but it seems like an odd way to do it, then again i guess Endgame was supposed to be the 'last hurrah' of the original Avengers.

Sony still owns the rights to Spiderman and all Spiderman villains that debuted in a Spiderman comic (so for example, they technically don't own Kingpin as he debuted in Daredevil). The sharing deal runs out after the next film so Marvel/Disney may not have him for long.

Kingpin debuted in Spiderman.

He transferred to Daredevil in the 80s, but he's been around since the 60s.

[clearspira]

I can't help but wonder if the MCU wrapping up, between Ragnarök and Endgame it seems like the original crew has pretty much had it.

I guess they are trying to bring in the new generation, Dr. Strange, Spiderman and Black Panther but it seems like an odd way to do it, then again i guess Endgame was supposed to be the 'last hurrah' of the original Avengers.

Sony still owns the rights to Spiderman and all Spiderman villains that debuted in a Spiderman comic (so for example, they technically don't own Kingpin as he debuted in Daredevil). The sharing deal runs out after the next film so Marvel/Disney may not have him for long.

Kingpin debuted in Spiderman.

He transferred to Daredevil in the 80s, but he's been around since the 60s.

I'm happy to be corrected, but I am sure I remember reading that is why Kingpin has yet to be in a live action Spiderman movie.

[Jonathan101]

I can't help but wonder if the MCU wrapping up, between Ragnarök and Endgame it seems like the original crew has pretty much had it.

I guess they are trying to bring in the new generation, Dr. Strange, Spiderman and Black Panther but it seems like an odd way to do it, then again i guess Endgame was supposed to be the 'last hurrah' of the original Avengers.

Sony still owns the rights to Spiderman and all Spiderman villains that debuted in a Spiderman comic (so for example, they technically don't own Kingpin as he debuted in Daredevil). The sharing deal runs out after the next film so Marvel/Disney may not have him for long.

Kingpin debuted in Spiderman.

He transferred to Daredevil in the 80s, but he's been around since the 60s.

I'm happy to be corrected, but I am sure I remember reading that is why Kingpin has yet to be in a live action Spiderman movie.

I think Kingpin is filed under "exception".

In the comics he's as likely to show up in either Spiderman or Daredevil, but while he's a dangerous enemy of Spiderman he's the arch-enemy of Daredevil, and is rather unique in comics to not just tangle or go over to another rogues gallery but to actually become the main villain of one.

A handful of characters are in a similar boat to him (like, how Quicksilver is counted as both an X-Men and an Avengers one, hence he's shown up in both franchises), but he's more important to Daredevil than to Spiderman for sure.

Nonetheless, he debuted in The Amazing Spider-Man #50 (July 1967).

[clearspira]

I can't help but wonder if the MCU wrapping up, between Ragnarök and Endgame it seems like the original crew has pretty much had it.

I guess they are trying to bring in the new generation, Dr. Strange, Spiderman and Black Panther but it seems like an odd way to do it, then again i guess Endgame was supposed to be the 'last hurrah' of the original Avengers.

Sony still owns the rights to Spiderman and all Spiderman villains that debuted in a Spiderman comic (so for example, they technically don't own Kingpin as he debuted in Daredevil). The sharing deal runs out after the next film so Marvel/Disney may not have him for long.

Kingpin debuted in Spiderman.

He transferred to Daredevil in the 80s, but he's been around since the 60s.

I'm happy to be corrected, but I am sure I remember reading that is why Kingpin has yet to be in a live action Spiderman movie.

I think Kingpin is filed under "exception".

In the comics he's as likely to show up in either Spiderman or Daredevil, but while he's a dangerous enemy of Spiderman he's the arch-enemy of Daredevil, and is rather unique in comics to not just tangle or go over to another rogues gallery but to actually become the main villain of one.

A handful of characters are in a similar boat to him (like, how Quicksilver is counted as both an X-Men and an Avengers one, hence he's shown up in both franchises), but he's more important to Daredevil than to Spiderman for sure.

Nonetheless, he debuted in The Amazing Spider-Man #50 (July 1967).

That makes sense. Thinking about it, Venom technically didn't debut in a Spiderman comic either, he first appeared in Secret Wars. Going by the same logic though he is indisputably a Spiderman villain.

On a side note, I really am in two minds about Sony still owning Spiderman after watching Chuck's excellent series on the comic crash. Marvel nearly ended the American comic book industry through sheer greed and yet thanks to the MCU and Disney have absolutely fallen on their feet.
On the other hand though, I can only rate four non-Marvel Marvel films as films that I think are great: X-Men 1, Logan, and the first two Maguire Spiderman films. The rest are meh to awful. As a film watcher I really am glad that X-Men and Fantastic Four are back with people who will (probably) give us a much better series out of it.