Yukaphile wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 2:07 pm
I don't need a peacock strutting around slapping everything his massive dick all full of toxic masculinity to enjoy Star Trek. Do you mean someone like Riker or Kirk, who has an obvious eye for the ladies? I mean, that sucks, but... I don't really care. It shouldn't be a deal-breaker for a story. Especially Star Trek, where the core ethos is humanity is all equal, which includes women and men and thus, gender roles are (should, at least) be a thing of the past.
Define toxic masculinity. Because wanting to bone women would not be my definition.
Example A:
Of course it was by design. The risk that a masculine man could in any way be more liked than their STRONG FEMALE PROTAGONIST genuinely hurts the sorts of people that puts out dross like modern Trek, modern Star Wars, modern Marvel comics, modern Dr Who... modern most sci fi really. I guarantee this was an active decision in the writers' room.
Why do you think they went with the toxic masculinity plot with Poe and Holdo? The end result of that conflict was meant to show Poe (the most masculine guy in the Disney trilogy) as a hothead prick and reasonable, peaceful Holdo as misunderstood - which failed. Why do you think that Rey is shown as more heroic than Luke at every point?
That is also why someone like Jack Harkness isn't Fem Dr Who's companion.
The people that make these shows think that good writing isn't how you make quality female characters - its bringing down the male characters so we have no choice but to like them.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 2:07 pm
I don't need a peacock strutting around slapping everything his massive dick all full of toxic masculinity to enjoy Star Trek. Do you mean someone like Riker or Kirk, who has an obvious eye for the ladies? I mean, that sucks, but... I don't really care. It shouldn't be a deal-breaker for a story. Especially Star Trek, where the core ethos is humanity is all equal, which includes women and men and thus, gender roles are (should, at least) be a thing of the past.
Define toxic masculinity. Because wanting to bone women would not be my definition.
Example A:
Of course it was by design. The risk that a masculine man could in any way be more liked than their STRONG FEMALE PROTAGONIST genuinely hurts the sorts of people that puts out dross like modern Trek, modern Star Wars, modern Marvel comics, modern Dr Who... modern most sci fi really. I guarantee this was an active decision in the writers' room.
Why do you think they went with the toxic masculinity plot with Poe and Holdo? The end result of that conflict was meant to show Poe (the most masculine guy in the Disney trilogy) as a hothead prick and reasonable, peaceful Holdo as misunderstood - which failed. Why do you think that Rey is shown as more heroic than Luke at every point?
That is also why someone like Jack Harkness isn't Fem Dr Who's companion.
The people that make these shows think that good writing isn't how you make quality female characters - its bringing down the male characters so we have no choice but to like them.
I mean, that is toxic masculinity, isn't it? That's seriously underestimating women. Women can be just as vicious, strong, and violent as any man. And it inherently assumes a woman looking stronger than men on screen is bad.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 2:24 pm
I mean, that is toxic masculinity, isn't it? That's seriously underestimating women. Women can be just as vicious, strong, and violent as any man. And it inherently assumes a woman looking stronger than men on screen is bad.
Does he seem like someone with that level of self awareness?
If a woman looks stronger than a lot of men on screen, even though women can be that way, she gets called a lesbian, and not in the "sexy, fun way" either! I mean, men and women alike need to understand they are underestimating women. I think it should stop.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 2:24 pm
I mean, that is toxic masculinity, isn't it? That's seriously underestimating women. Women can be just as vicious, strong, and violent as any man. And it inherently assumes a woman looking stronger than men on screen is bad.
Does he seem like someone with that level of self awareness?
OK, boys. Lets play this game. At what point did I say any of that? Go ahead, go back, its right above you.
I said - and pay attention now - that the writers were deliberately making the male characters worse in both quality and diversity in order to make the female characters better. Which is a fact. Its a fact in Dr Who, its a fact in TLJ, and its a fact in Trek. The people behind these properties do not want equal characters, and if you feel like giving me some evidence of this, go right on ahead.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 2:31 pm
If a woman looks stronger than a lot of men on screen, even though women can be that way, she gets called a lesbian, and not in the "sexy, fun way" either!
Bollocks. Just bollocks. That is not the common opinion to strong women on screen, and if it was, most female led action films would not make half the return that they currently do. Only when they destroy the male characters alongside her does the vitriol start AKA every man in TLJ.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 2:17 pm
See, my big problem with Slash's post is that it presupposes that we are slaves to our biological functions, so we need men who wear that label on their sleeve, and women who do the same, because of outdated gender roles. I know many asexual people, and past the reproductive impulses, men and women are basically the same. So I don't like having that shoved in my face. I mean, he is the kind of guy who would complain if MaRey Sue was doing the same, so... why not? It's all meaningless. Treat men and women the same, except for one you're romantically interested in, then try and be nice and respect boundaries. That's how I live my world.
if you have a voice like Ron Perlman or Clin Eastwood i will assume you are a male even if i did not see you.
Same my ass, i cam out of a women's belly.
So you don't want people feel worse about a woman being punched in the face than a man?
@clearspira I mean, if you're talking about Last Jedi, I consider that more due to sheer incompetence, than an actively malicious agenda, past wanting more strong female characters, but failing to understand the nuance previous characters like, say, Sarah Connor (might as well reference Terminator with the new trailer!) had had.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 2:42 pm
@clearspira I mean, if you're talking about Last Jedi, I consider that more due to sheer incompetence, than an actively malicious agenda, past wanting more strong female characters, but failing to understand the nuance previous characters like, say, Sarah Connor (might as well reference Terminator with the new trailer!) had had.
. Love and compassion were taught and practiced fondly by the people of Gatalenta, and crying openly was considered a virtue and proof of a caring heart.
