Lack of masculine and masculine sounding and acting good guys on DISCO

[Mecha82]

I know that this might seem random even based on what Yuka said there is something that lot of people don't seem to understand about Wonder Woman (I learned that thanks to Linkara) is that while she can be tough big part of her is her capacity for love and compassion. That is how she was created to be like and it does make lot of sense that she ended up being deputy Violet Lantern during Blackest Night event. So while she is super powerful demi-goddess (her current origin) she has caring side.

That said all humans regardless about gender are individuals so not all boys/men are similar and not all girls/women are similar when it comes to things like personalities and interests. So not all boys/men are tough and not all girls/women are soft and it depends from person.

[Yukaphile]

I want an equal world, but one built on peace, as I've said before. It's shocking how many people still can't see this, think in very base racial or gendered terms (and I'm not calling them racist or sexist, but these things are part of our nature), and then they call you a stupid, naive idealist when you share your beliefs with them. SMH

[Deledrius]

No outwardly masculine character was part of Team Good for a long time.

By design or by accident?

We had a cool woke dad in Pike but nobody spoke like Riker, there was no skirt chasing fun guy like Tom Paris, gone is Sisko's uniquely masculine voice and demeanor, the pragmatic, stubborn proudly Irish masculinity of O'Brien, the warrior masculinity of Worf...

Pike, Tyler and Hugh.

Tyler's been quite a bit of a wet mop of a character this season. He was two, no -- three, wait... one character in Season 1... Still not sure who he is and I'm pretty sure the cast and crew (based on his usage and his acting) aren't clear either.

Hugh... I can't say much about. He was mostly there as a strongly caring counterpoint to Stamets in S1, and by the time he came back in S2 he was (understandably) mostly an emotional wreck. Then a sudden return to being perfectly fine in the 11th hour... Not much to go on with him but that he's a Doctor who became one to help others and Pay it Forward. That's potentially a strongly masculine trait, but in a weakly-written or at least under-developed character.

But Pike? He's the Masculine Ideal given form in Star Trek. Dutiful, Loyal, Wise, Caring, he takes the tasks given to him and carries them on his shoulders as a quiet burden. He's the Paragon foil to Lorca's feigned leadership. Pike's a man who takes charge to provide true leadership, and also is secure enough in that role to let others lead when it's the best course of action. He is cunning, without the need for deception or diversion. He places the lives of others above his own, but isn't out to martyr himself. He is a man of his word, and looks for that level of trust in others, asking them through encouragement rather than by threat to hold themselves to that level of mutual respect.

Stamets demonstrates a lot of Masculine qualities too, but instead of just the quiet-suffering of Pike he takes on a whole load of the more toxic sort. He's brash, arrogant, and boastful. They even have him mimic a "mansplaining" moment to Reno (which falls flat since there's crucial information regarding the spore network and dilithium re-crystallization about which neither of them are aware). He also fails to notice signs of the emotional turmoil that Culber is going through, and is unable to process his own emotions during that time as well. We see that he has deeper moments (probably the only good aspect of "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad"), but that this is not where his self-identity is and he keeps others at a distance with his attitude.

Saru is probably the most complex, as we've spent the most time getting to know him. I think they've given him a pretty big mix of both positive and negative aspects of traditionally "masculine" and "feminine" traits. He can be at times passive, but he can also be brash and aggressive. He can be petty, and yet still forgiving. He's protective of those around him, and very much an idealist and a scholar. He has a lot of insecurities, but strives to overcome them. Out of all the characters on the show, he is probably the most well-rounded and well-written in regards to his depth, and the acting does it justice.

And that's just the main characters who are male. I think Reno, Burnham, and Cornwell could easily be put on this list as protagonists displaying "masculine" traits (good and bad) if I felt like spending more time writing about it

My conclusion: there are some excellent examples of positive (and not-so-positive) masculine characters in Discovery. The show has a lot of flaws (my complaints are mostly about story and theme), and I hope we get more development on Culber, but this particular "problem" being begged by the question really doesn't seem to be one. Lorca was a bit of a failure (as a consistent character and at achieving his goals), but Season 2 improved on this a lot with the remaining and new characters.

[Yukaphile]

I have to wonder if Slash is just pining for the old days of TOS, and probably ignores the blatant misogyny on display there.

[Deledrius]

I have to wonder if Slash is just pining for the old days of TOS, and probably ignores the blatant misogyny on display there.

I think Kirk (actual Kirk, not pop-culture Kirk or Shatner) was a pretty positive example of masculinity. Some of it is awkward today, but the intent was positive and much of it is sadly still aspirational today. Bones, Spock, and Scotty (aside from "Wolf in the Fold"), too .

[Yukaphile]

Yeah, most of it is good. But a lot of is awkward, as you said.

[Karha of Honor]

I have to wonder if Slash is just pining for the old days of TOS, and probably ignores the blatant misogyny on display there.

I don't remember and i won't rewatch for your sake.

[Yukaphile]

Did I say you should?

[clearspira]

I have to wonder if Slash is just pining for the old days of TOS, and probably ignores the blatant misogyny on display there.

I think Kirk (actual Kirk, not pop-culture Kirk or Shatner) was a pretty positive example of masculinity. Some of it is awkward today, but the intent was positive and much of it is sadly still aspirational today. Bones, Spock, and Scotty (aside from "Wolf in the Fold"), too .

Given certain people's comments earlier, it seems to me that any man who wants sex over love is a misogynist to certain people. I see nothing wrong with Kirk as he was actually portrayed.

[Yukaphile]

I mean, this is a big problem with Slash, in that he wants men to look and act a certain way. It's why I HATE gender roles. They're bullshit stereotypes that need to DIE. Also reminds me how hopelessly superficial most people are.

Well, would that describe me? Yes, I want the actual affection and romance, but if all I can settle for is that, I'm taking it. Of course, only if she wants it, naturally.