Lack of masculine and masculine sounding and acting good guys on DISCO

[Darth Wedgius]

Given all the pictures of men and women I've seen in my lifetime, most human beings aren't trained fighters, and so the size difference isn't that great. I do think it's ultimately meaningless. Another way we equate to "men = power, women = softness."

Yukaphile, between two equally unskilled fighters, wouldn't you think the one who can punch twice as hard has a better chance to win?

[Deledrius]

Given certain people's comments earlier, it seems to me that any man who wants sex over love is a misogynist to certain people. I see nothing wrong with Kirk as he was actually portrayed.

That works, since Kirk was portrayed as a lover. In the context of the free-love progressive ideas of the late 1960s, the sex was consequence-free; Kirk was always in conflict between his duty and his love when it came up as a topic, or else he was being the one taken advantage of sexually and he, as protagonist, would turn the tables. Compared to the contemporaneous James Bond, Kirk was a man of virtue and honesty when it came to sexual encounters. Kirk wasn't using his charm to claim new territory in the name of Her Majesty. Seriously, Goldfinger is remarkably upsetting in this regard, and Thunderball too, with Bond blackmailing a women into an encounter using a crime she didn't even commit. Taken as a whole, Kirk was a romantic.

2009 Kirk, OTOH, is a fratboy horndog with the emotional range of a teaspoon. It's all just ego.

[Yukaphile]

@Darth Wedgius Sometimes, but not always. Random luck is as much a factor.

[Worffan101]

LOL, out of all the bullshit so-called writing on this terrible excuse for a show, even the hilariously terrible corporate-pandering faux-woke pseudoprogressivism from season 2 like the cartoon idiot character who is portrayed as a horrible jerk who must die because he Doesn't Agree With Priceless Perfect Mikey Burnham, THIS is what you complain about?

Also, wasn't Ashvoq a pretty deep-voiced traditionally masculine type?

Honestly, there are so many much more important things to complain about, this is literally nothing.

[Karha of Honor]

I mean, this is a big problem with Slash, in that he wants men to look and act a certain way. It's why I HATE gender roles. They're bullshit stereotypes that need to DIE. Also reminds me how hopelessly superficial most people are.

Where did i say in this thread?

I said malekind does not really get a representative sample. I never lobbied for Bashir or Data or Picard to be removed.

Did I say you should?

I answered in case you might ask for that.

[Riedquat]

I mean, this is a big problem with Slash, in that he wants men to look and act a certain way. It's why I HATE gender roles. They're bullshit stereotypes that need to DIE. Also reminds me how hopelessly superficial most people are.

No, they're not, not entirely, and there are lots of people in this world who are quite happy to go along with them. Just as long as they don't cross the line and start putting down or abusing others that is entirely OK; one thing I hate is the idea that there's something wrong with a man who is happy to embrace what would traditionally be regarded as masculine, just as long as he throws away some of the other traditional parts like "should keep his wife under control."

People are not the same. Another thing I hate is trying to pretend that they are. I'd far rather everyone was different and got along, rather than trying to enforce cooperation by attempting to eliminate difference (which is very bigoted anyway). That would be a miserable, sterile world and I'm rather fed up with people apparently wanting a miserable, sterile world.

[clearspira]

I mean, this is a big problem with Slash, in that he wants men to look and act a certain way. It's why I HATE gender roles. They're bullshit stereotypes that need to DIE. Also reminds me how hopelessly superficial most people are.

No, they're not, not entirely, and there are lots of people in this world who are quite happy to go along with them. Just as long as they don't cross the line and start putting down or abusing others that is entirely OK; one thing I hate is the idea that there's something wrong with a man who is happy to embrace what would traditionally be regarded as masculine, just as long as he throws away some of the other traditional parts like "should keep his wife under control."

People are not the same. Another thing I hate is trying to pretend that they are. I'd far rather everyone was different and got along, rather than trying to enforce cooperation by attempting to eliminate difference (which is very bigoted anyway). That would be a miserable, sterile world and I'm rather fed up with people apparently wanting a miserable, sterile world.

You make a good point. One of the reasons why gender roles exist even today is not ''the patriarchy'' it is because actually because most people are, not so much happy with their existence, as they are UNDERSTANDING of their existence. As long as women are physically weaker than men and are the childbearers, gender roles are going nowhere.

And it is not a coincidence that gender equality mainly started around the industrial revolution, because improved education and machines are well on their way to nullifying the male physical strength advantage. And why countries where education and the ready access to machinery is low also tend to have the worst rights for women.
And once the artificial womb is created (and it will be, the process isn't all that complicated, its more getting past the ''its messing with nature'' ideologues we'll have to contend with first) coupled with the rise in artificial intelligence and the story will become very different.

[Yukaphile]

Well, perhaps it's just hard for me not to stop thinking in gendered terms, especially since the common stereotype seems to be men are horndogs who want only sex, women want affectionate relationships. Men are shallow, women are deep. Men victimize women, women are innocent. These hurt us all.

[Riedquat]

Well, perhaps it's just hard for me not to stop thinking in gendered terms, especially since the common stereotype seems to be men are horndogs who want only sex, women want affectionate relationships. Men are shallow, women are deep. Men victimize women, women are innocent. These hurt us all.

Then look beyond those prejudices (they're more your's than society's, not that they're entirely absent in wider society). The answer to perceived problems with differences should never be to argue for eliminating differences. Although I'm quite an individualist - some peoples' ideal world is of one big society, no separate countries, no separate values, no separate identities, which sounds awful to me. My ideal is everyone largely minding their own business in their own way whilst getting along together, with what groupings there are being relatively small (definitely need to be human interaction at the day to day level, one thing I don't like about the current world is how it's so desperate to remove human interaction in day to day tasks). I don't want conflicts between those groups but I'll take the chance of it over the homegeneity.

[Yukaphile]

It's inevitable. That said, despite my own biases, I know both men and women are just people.

I can agree about the warmth of human touch has been removed from society. And at the same time, the Internet has revealed some truly awful, even evil people out there.

Here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbXVBVqW4MY