Nazis and the Nature of Evil

[Riedquat]

I am no soldier, or government leader period. Yet I do feel guilty for what they do. We could do better, as a race.

You don't speak for anyone else and you're not responsible for anyone else. There are all sorts of negative opinions that can be validly held concerning the actions of others. Shame makes no sense though. It makes no more sense than feeling shame when an animal does something unpleasant, as a fellow living being.

[Riedquat]

and to clarify more, I can also see how someone can be molded by circumstance into being something like a psychopath but not really, like a horrible life or indoctrination into a bad ideology but those individuals' sense of empathy would still show in some form and I still don't buy that those like Hiter, who were at the top and couldn't even make an argument of just doing what he had to, had any good in them.

No-one is that one-dimensional. It's tempting to claim that the most unpleasant people can't have anything in common with us but I very much doubt it's ever true. For example, you seem to have a very negative view towards Hitler (I'd be rather worried about anyone who didn't!) So you've got some of the emotions he must've had, just applied to a different person...

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I have a hard time looking past what Hitler did just on an administration level. At one point the world saw him as a prospective guy. Then after the Patterns of Force review I looked into about how his policies on the world stage were a complete facade and his personal goal seemed to be just reestablishing Prussia. At that point I'm not really tempted to look at good and evil with regard to absolutism, because nothing's really going to measure next to what he did.

So what are we talking about when we're speculating on any good in him? Like, he was a loving family man? Vegetarian artist? Good intentions at the start? These are all things we're familiar with horrible people having attributes. So if there was ever any good in him, just what might we be referring to? A turning point of some sort?

[Dragon Ball Fan]

and to clarify more, I can also see how someone can be molded by circumstance into being something like a psychopath but not really, like a horrible life or indoctrination into a bad ideology but those individuals' sense of empathy would still show in some form and I still don't buy that those like Hiter, who were at the top and couldn't even make an argument of just doing what he had to, had any good in them.

No-one is that one-dimensional. It's tempting to claim that the most unpleasant people can't have anything in common with us but I very much doubt it's ever true. For example, you seem to have a very negative view towards Hitler (I'd be rather worried about anyone who didn't!) So you've got some of the emotions he must've had, just applied to a different person...

I still don't believe that, my sense of empathy is so strong, I do not even want to kill flies, how would it ever be possible I could do anything remotely like what Hitler did?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

and to clarify more, I can also see how someone can be molded by circumstance into being something like a psychopath but not really, like a horrible life or indoctrination into a bad ideology but those individuals' sense of empathy would still show in some form and I still don't buy that those like Hiter, who were at the top and couldn't even make an argument of just doing what he had to, had any good in them.

No-one is that one-dimensional. It's tempting to claim that the most unpleasant people can't have anything in common with us but I very much doubt it's ever true. For example, you seem to have a very negative view towards Hitler (I'd be rather worried about anyone who didn't!) So you've got some of the emotions he must've had, just applied to a different person...

I still don't believe that, my sense of empathy is so strong, I do not even want to kill flies, how would it ever be possible I could do anything remotely like what Hitler did?

But that's a peculiar bar to set. Normal people kill flies and we don't necessarily start having considerations of "bad" at that point. Maybe if they're like Sid from Toy Story, but what does not killing flies have to do with Hitler?

[Dragon Ball Fan]

and to clarify more, I can also see how someone can be molded by circumstance into being something like a psychopath but not really, like a horrible life or indoctrination into a bad ideology but those individuals' sense of empathy would still show in some form and I still don't buy that those like Hiter, who were at the top and couldn't even make an argument of just doing what he had to, had any good in them.

No-one is that one-dimensional. It's tempting to claim that the most unpleasant people can't have anything in common with us but I very much doubt it's ever true. For example, you seem to have a very negative view towards Hitler (I'd be rather worried about anyone who didn't!) So you've got some of the emotions he must've had, just applied to a different person...

I still don't believe that, my sense of empathy is so strong, I do not even want to kill flies, how would it ever be possible I could do anything remotely like what Hitler did?

But that's a peculiar bar to set. Normal people kill flies and we don't necessarily start having considerations of "bad" at that point. Maybe if they're like Sid from Toy Story, but what does not killing flies have to do with Hitler?

most people may not have much problem killing household pests but they still have empathy to all other humans and maybe most other living things. the only way Hitler's actions make any sense to me is that he was a sociopath who completely lacked empathy, empathy doesn't care about ideology, so if he had empathy, his ideology saying the Jewish weren't people wouldn't matter.

[Yukaphile]

We're living in an age where we are removing the agency of some truly evil people thanks to political correctness and psychology culture, as if they weren't responsible in making their own actions, and trying to pretend those they victimized are morally equivalent, that they're both "victims" or both "guilty." I've seen it, and it needs to stop.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

and to clarify more, I can also see how someone can be molded by circumstance into being something like a psychopath but not really, like a horrible life or indoctrination into a bad ideology but those individuals' sense of empathy would still show in some form and I still don't buy that those like Hiter, who were at the top and couldn't even make an argument of just doing what he had to, had any good in them.

No-one is that one-dimensional. It's tempting to claim that the most unpleasant people can't have anything in common with us but I very much doubt it's ever true. For example, you seem to have a very negative view towards Hitler (I'd be rather worried about anyone who didn't!) So you've got some of the emotions he must've had, just applied to a different person...

I still don't believe that, my sense of empathy is so strong, I do not even want to kill flies, how would it ever be possible I could do anything remotely like what Hitler did?

But that's a peculiar bar to set. Normal people kill flies and we don't necessarily start having considerations of "bad" at that point. Maybe if they're like Sid from Toy Story, but what does not killing flies have to do with Hitler?

most people may not have much problem killing household pests but they still have empathy to all other humans and maybe most other living things. the only way Hitler's actions make any sense to me is that he was a sociopath who completely lacked empathy, empathy doesn't care about ideology, so if he had empathy, his ideology saying the Jewish weren't people wouldn't matter.

Well I think I see your picture a little better now.

Lack of empathy isn't really a bizarre condition in my opinion. I wouldn't say you're necessarily wrong about Hitler being a person that was devoid of it, but assessment of empathy isn't a very good lens to gauge where someone like that goes wrong.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

We're living in an age where we are removing the agency of some truly evil people thanks to political correctness and psychology culture, as if they weren't responsible in making their own actions, and trying to pretend those they victimized are morally equivalent, that they're both "victims" or both "guilty." I've seen it, and it needs to stop.

I've seen you on this topic before. I don't think we've come to an age of what you're describing, these are very old social constructs in my opinion.

[Riedquat]

and to clarify more, I can also see how someone can be molded by circumstance into being something like a psychopath but not really, like a horrible life or indoctrination into a bad ideology but those individuals' sense of empathy would still show in some form and I still don't buy that those like Hiter, who were at the top and couldn't even make an argument of just doing what he had to, had any good in them.

No-one is that one-dimensional. It's tempting to claim that the most unpleasant people can't have anything in common with us but I very much doubt it's ever true. For example, you seem to have a very negative view towards Hitler (I'd be rather worried about anyone who didn't!) So you've got some of the emotions he must've had, just applied to a different person...

I still don't believe that, my sense of empathy is so strong, I do not even want to kill flies, how would it ever be possible I could do anything remotely like what Hitler did?

Empathy is being able to get inside other peoples' heads and see the world from their perspective, not just being reluctant to do anything bad.