Business schools are shutting down MBA programs

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Good. MBAs in general are just wasted time; you get better and less snooty managers if they come up from the ranks of the specialists so they know WTF they're talking about.

Tricky. Not every specialist makes a good manager and whilst a good manager needs some technical knowledge they don't need to be any sort of specialist or expert.

I'm also not keen on the idea that it's "coming up from the ranks", with the implication that it's a higher role. In most businesses it is, which is a huge mistake. The wheels need to be greased to keep on turning properly, that doesn't make the grease more important than the wheels though. And they wonder why they have p1ssed off staff and a high turnover rate.

I'm not of the mind that MBA's are inherently worthless, but I'm not getting what you think the shortcomings are with coming up from the ranks? Where does it start to fall short?

[Madner Kami]

He's not saying that there are automatic shortcomings by coming up from the ranks. His point is, that MBAs are a management degree and the skills you should learn from that are not automatically learned by coming up from the ranks. Quite the contrary even actually. Yes, management needs a broad idea of what the underlings are doing in order to manage them efficiently, but they do not need to know every detail that the underling knows of.

[Riedquat]

He's not saying that there are automatic shortcomings by coming up from the ranks. His point is, that MBAs are a management degree and the skills you should learn from that are not automatically learned by coming up from the ranks. Quite the contrary even actually. Yes, management needs a broad idea of what the underlings are doing in order to manage them efficiently, but they do not need to know every detail that the underling knows of.

And the very concept of "underling", that one position is fundamentally superior to the other. It may be the case in some jobs (although they're gradually dwindling away), but mostly it's just different people doing different tasks that need doing. It's only that by its nature managing is closer to the money and attracts the type of people more interested in it. Personally I regard it as doing all the tedious nonsense that needs doing. Like emptying the bins and cleaning the toilets I'm glad someone else is there to do the unpleasant stuff so I don't have to, and would regard having to do so as a demotion.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well I mean, that's kind of a shortcoming for intents and purposes, but I do get where you're coming from now.

[Madner Kami]

And the very concept of "underling", that one position is fundamentally superior to the other.

My apologies. I could not find a better word for that relation and did not intend to imply a relation of worthyness or importance, merely one of hierarchy. Everyone in an efficient hierarchy is a skilled and important specialist at doing his job.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I've always kinda conflated underlings with zerglings.

[Riedquat]

And the very concept of "underling", that one position is fundamentally superior to the other.

My apologies. I could not find a better word for that relation and did not intend to imply a relation of worthyness or importance, merely one of hierarchy. Everyone in an efficient hierarchy is a skilled and important specialist at doing his job.

No need to apologise, that's how things very often are so it's descriptive enough of what the system actually is.

Hierarchies have their places and even without them someone still needs to be making the decisions but they also exist where there's no real justification for them.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

And the very concept of "underling", that one position is fundamentally superior to the other.

My apologies. I could not find a better word for that relation and did not intend to imply a relation of worthyness or importance, merely one of hierarchy. Everyone in an efficient hierarchy is a skilled and important specialist at doing his job.

No need to apologise, that's how things very often are so it's descriptive enough of what the system actually is.

That's how I interpreted it as well; not with any overt condescension what not.

[Nealithi]

Education does more than just telling you facts. It also tells you how to obtain and work with these facts. For example, I can easily read how a combustion engine works, but that doesn't mean I can repair one. The reason that less and less people become physicians and engineers is simply, that especially the former is a field of work that demands a lot from the applicant but pays badly, almost universally in the western world for some undiscernible reason.

I am not an expert. Nor have much paperwork to back this. But conversations with doctors and the like suggest that the high price of malpractice insurance drains money. Add in that you have to get a Phd to become a doctor and this is some serious debt. And a huge work load. So it is practically de-incentivized.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Education does more than just telling you facts. It also tells you how to obtain and work with these facts. For example, I can easily read how a combustion engine works, but that doesn't mean I can repair one. The reason that less and less people become physicians and engineers is simply, that especially the former is a field of work that demands a lot from the applicant but pays badly, almost universally in the western world for some undiscernible reason.

I am not an expert. Nor have much paperwork to back this. But conversations with doctors and the like suggest that the high price of malpractice insurance drains money. Add in that you have to get a Phd to become a doctor and this is some serious debt. And a huge work load. So it is practically de-incentivized.

Well him being in the land of Germany; I've read that doctors there are paid rather median level salaries. In other words, like half or something of what we're common to hear of their American counterparts make. As far as I remember, their medical program costs the same, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is more rigorous, though as someone afraid of too much comprehension in my schooling, even American med school curriculums have sounded considerably daunting in the past.