SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

[SabreMau]

Anyway, there's an even more peaceful way to disarm the TuMarr and Slestack ambush, and it's hidden behind the "Kill them" option. Right after that, all you have to do is announce your intention to eat both of them, then they look at you and nope out of there without anyone dying. Then the commander congratulates you on your successful bluff and you can look at him and go, "What bluff?"

Ugh, I hate anti-choice design in games. It's so contrived. You're essentially being forced to second-guess your own character, the UI, and the instructions you give them. That can be hilarious in games like Monkey Island (when used sparingly) because the consequences don't matter and the juxtaposition is good for humour, but in an RPG that's frustrating as hell and in an MMO it's an unforgivable sin.

That sort of nonsense is why I couldn't play Mass Effect. Confronted with a guy in a panic, I choose to calm him down, but my character rebels with the violent option and physically knocks the man out. The UI should not be stuck in "sarcasm mode".

Well, intimidation is only one of the three options you can select after you announce you'll kill them. The other two do lead to fighting.

[TheStarWarsTrek]

"Barriss can see this guy isn't Sith material, and so has him reassigned, he's gonna be handling prisoners"

Gee, it's almost like instead of pointlessly killing everyone who fails, wasting not only life but resources, people can be given another chance and find some other way to benefit your Empire or something.

I swear, sometimes I'm surprised the Sith haven't all died out from disease, because it's only a matter of time before some Lord decides to ban medkits on the grounds that "If you were wounded, it means you are weak and deserve to be culled!".

[Mecha82]

Instead we had Sith Empire fall because of infighting leading to Darth Bane and his Rule of Two Sith which was much better reason and it gave Darth Bane actual reason to create Rule of Two.

[Steve]

As usual, Chuck's in fine form.

Ah, TOR. Back in its first two years it had such promise. But it has fallen quite far in the last three. I probably have a couple thousand cartel coins from my 100/month security key grant... maybe I should go back and just replay the original class stories sometimes to re-experience the fun (or finish the two dozen alts I never finished).

It's also kinda funny that Chuck's basically played the classes in reverse order I did. I finished them in this order: Jedi Knight, Jedi Consular, Smuggler, Trooper, Bounty Hunter, Sith Warrior, Sith Inquisitor, Imperial Agent. And yes, there is a reason why that order is Republic first, and yes, it's because the Sith Empire is a moral and ethical abomination that must be destroyed. Honestly I hated much of the generic story content (the planetary missions and such) on Imp side and mostly leveled my Imp toons via PEEVEEPEE (this was back before they remade things to allow you to level with mostly class missions).

[hammerofglass]

And yes, there is a reason why that order is Republic first, and yes, it's because the Sith Empire is a moral and ethical abomination that must be destroyed.

Honestly they're both moral and ethical abominations. From what we see of Republic space, especially on Coruscant and in the Trooper storyline (let alone Belsavis), it's pretty much a cyberpunk dystopia. The only real difference is that the Sith revel in it while the Republic tries to keep it's many crimes just baaaarely under the rug where upper class folks like the Jedi don't have to think about them. The man with his boot on your neck says "freedom" a lot in the Republic, but he's still got his boot on your neck.

[Steve]

And yes, there is a reason why that order is Republic first, and yes, it's because the Sith Empire is a moral and ethical abomination that must be destroyed.

Honestly they're both moral and ethical abominations. From what we see of Republic space, especially on Coruscant and in the Trooper storyline (let alone Belsavis), it's pretty much a cyberpunk dystopia. The only real difference is that the Sith revel in it while the Republic tries to keep it's many crimes just baaaarely under the rug where upper class folks like the Jedi don't have to think about them. The man with his boot on your neck says "freedom" a lot in the Republic, but he's still got his boot on your neck.

I think the problem is that the Republic's very size hinders its ability to deal with pressing social issues, allowing for corruption and private actors to employ repression while further undermining the Republic's principles. But it does have those principles, and many in the Republic fight to try and enforce them against those corrupt forces. That's what elevates them above the Sith Empire in my view. Better to have principles that you struggle to uphold and sometimes fail to preserve than to embrace corruption and oppression.

TBH one thing that always irritates me is the attitude that if you're not 100% correct in upholding your values, you're just a corrupt hypocrite and can't criticize people who are openly corrupt and even cruel and oppressive. That attitude, to me, invites one to become morally nihilistic. It says "Don't bother being good because everything you stand for will be destroyed at even the perception of a misstep, while those who are outright evil will have that evil ignored because they don't hide it".

So yeah, the Republic has big flaws and needs a lot of work, but I'll take it over the Sith Empire any day of the week.

[Madner Kami]

Honestly they're both moral and ethical abominations. From what we see of Republic space, especially on Coruscant and in the Trooper storyline (let alone Belsavis), it's pretty much a cyberpunk dystopia. The only real difference is that the Sith revel in it while the Republic tries to keep it's many crimes just baaaarely under the rug where upper class folks like the Jedi don't have to think about them. The man with his boot on your neck says "freedom" a lot in the Republic, but he's still got his boot on your neck.

Yeah. If there's a republic-sided class that has reason to go Dark Side, it's the Trooper. I find the Trooper's storyline in general to be rather underrated.

So yeah, the Republic has big flaws and needs a lot of work, but I'll take it over the Sith Empire any day of the week.

That may be, but the Republic is so outstandingly bad in places, that I think a lot of people have very good reason to put their hopes into the Empire. If you get fucked regardless on if you are part of the Republic or the Empire, then it is reasonable to pick the side that at least allows you to fight for yourself. Like the Belsavan born-prisoners. The Republic is happy with keeping the locked away and forget about them. The Empire might use them as pawns and cannon-fodder, but at least they are allowed to fight for the moment. The Evil you know...

[SabreMau]

Honestly they're both moral and ethical abominations. From what we see of Republic space, especially on Coruscant and in the Trooper storyline (let alone Belsavis), it's pretty much a cyberpunk dystopia. The only real difference is that the Sith revel in it while the Republic tries to keep it's many crimes just baaaarely under the rug where upper class folks like the Jedi don't have to think about them. The man with his boot on your neck says "freedom" a lot in the Republic, but he's still got his boot on your neck.

Yeah. If there's a republic-sided class that has reason to go Dark Side, it's the Trooper. I find the Trooper's storyline in general to be rather underrated.

When I played, I decided to split things up and went 2 LS Republic, 2 DS Republic, 2 LS Empire, 2 DS Empire. Trooper turned out to be one of the DS Republic ones I played, and I didn't like it too terribly much. It's been years, but I think a lot of the choices were something like "Save the hostages" or "THERE'S NO TIME, LET THEM BURN" and selecting the latter over and over wasn't particularly enjoyable. Maybe if I replay it again without that stipulation and just roleplay choices on the fly it might be a better story.

[Karha of Honor]

And yes, there is a reason why that order is Republic first, and yes, it's because the Sith Empire is a moral and ethical abomination that must be destroyed.

Honestly they're both moral and ethical abominations. From what we see of Republic space, especially on Coruscant and in the Trooper storyline (let alone Belsavis), it's pretty much a cyberpunk dystopia. The only real difference is that the Sith revel in it while the Republic tries to keep it's many crimes just baaaarely under the rug where upper class folks like the Jedi don't have to think about them. The man with his boot on your neck says "freedom" a lot in the Republic, but he's still got his boot on your neck.

Check out Knight Errant.

That can happen if the Sith gain control for a long time...

[Wargriffin]

And yes, there is a reason why that order is Republic first, and yes, it's because the Sith Empire is a moral and ethical abomination that must be destroyed.

Honestly they're both moral and ethical abominations. From what we see of Republic space, especially on Coruscant and in the Trooper storyline (let alone Belsavis), it's pretty much a cyberpunk dystopia. The only real difference is that the Sith revel in it while the Republic tries to keep it's many crimes just baaaarely under the rug where upper class folks like the Jedi don't have to think about them. The man with his boot on your neck says "freedom" a lot in the Republic, but he's still got his boot on your neck.

I think the problem is that the Republic's very size hinders its ability to deal with pressing social issues, allowing for corruption and private actors to employ repression while further undermining the Republic's principles. But it does have those principles, and many in the Republic fight to try and enforce them against those corrupt forces. That's what elevates them above the Sith Empire in my view. Better to have principles that you struggle to uphold and sometimes fail to preserve than to embrace corruption and oppression.

TBH one thing that always irritates me is the attitude that if you're not 100% correct in upholding your values, you're just a corrupt hypocrite and can't criticize people who are openly corrupt and even cruel and oppressive. That attitude, to me, invites one to become morally nihilistic. It says "Don't bother being good because everything you stand for will be destroyed at even the perception of a misstep, while those who are outright evil will have that evil ignored because they don't hide it".

So yeah, the Republic has big flaws and needs a lot of work, but I'll take it over the Sith Empire any day of the week.

Modern Morality in a nutshell

Good is an illusion and Evil doesnt care

Its not about being right, its about appearing correct, Keep that moral high ground until you can't fake it no more


The other problem is BW clearly wants to make the Sith Empire as nuanced as possible while they just kinda phone it in on the Republic.

Its basically a Naive Idealism that works on Absolutes, Republic and Jedi have failings sure... but for some odd reason those failings are unforgivable due to the idea that the Republic and Jedi being the good guys should live up to the ideals 'Which I'm pretty sure 90% of people who throw that accusation don't even live up to their own damn standards while the Sith get a pass cause Their Ideals are about being depraved, you can't fault them for following their base lust.