Feminist civil war over strip club

[LittleRaven]

To be fair, I didn't see any sex-negative feminists in the article. It looks like this is mostly a fight between a local government regulatory agency which claims they have evidence of illegal activity at the club, and the dancers who don't want to lose their jobs. A few (presumably sex-positive) workers from a local university are backing the dancers.

However, regardless of the details of this particular case, it is true that feminism is quite divided on the issue of sex work. Probably because it's a very messy area.

[Yukaphile]

I'm Feminist. I'm sex-positive. I'm in favor or legal prostitution because it stops sex trafficking. And I've seen Feminists downplay rape on women and victim-blame them at the same time, act as if the attackers are somehow victims too, when despite lifelong scars, the women can get pregnant or STDs. Amazing how the truth of diversity works, eh?

[LittleRaven]

I'm Feminist. I'm sex-positive. I'm in favor or legal prostitution because it stops sex trafficking.

Citation Needed: Studies suggest the exact opposite is true. Countries with legalized prostitution have substantially higher rates of human trafficking than countries where it is illegal. (probably because legalizing prostitution creates demand without creating sufficient domestic supply, making trafficking more lucrative, especially in richer countries, where this effect is the strongest)

[Mecha82]

To be fair, I didn't see any sex-negative feminists in the article. It looks like this is mostly a fight between a local government regulatory agency which claims they have evidence of illegal activity at the club, and the dancers who don't want to lose their jobs. A few (presumably sex-positive) workers from a local university are backing the dancers.

So in other words title of this thread of miss leading and doesn't match what is actually going on. Talk about click bait.

I'm Feminist. I'm sex-positive. I'm in favor or legal prostitution because it stops sex trafficking.

Citation Needed: Studies suggest the exact opposite is true. Countries with legalized prostitution have substantially higher rates of human trafficking than countries where it is illegal. (probably because legalizing prostitution creates demand without creating sufficient domestic supply, making trafficking more lucrative, especially in richer countries, where this effect is the strongest)

Law of supply and demand does also applies to prostitution just like it does to every business ever regardless of how old that business is and prostitution is very old business indeed. Considering how real world isn't simple it does make sense that both having and not having legalized prostitution brings own problems. Still having legalized prostitution does help making sure that women working in it are some what safer than they would be if it was illegal.

[LittleRaven]

Still having legalized prostitution does help making sure that women working in it are some what safer than they would be if it was illegal.

Possibly. Maybe. Research is scant, and what research we do have is decidedly split. Some of it suggests you are correct, but other examples suggest that legalizing prostitution protects a small minority of 'legal' sex workers while creating a large black market of trafficked women who enjoy no such protection.

I really don't blame Feminists for being split about sex work. I don't have any good answers either. It is a messy, messy business that leaves millions of damaged people in its wake every year. I'm always leery of prohibition, because the cure can often be worse than the disease, but I'm also sympathetic to the idea that some monsters shouldn't be invited to sit at the dinner table no matter how nicely they clean up.

[Admiral X]

I kind of wished this was an actual fight I could pull up a chair to and watch.

[Yukaphile]

I feel as if I wanna add something, to clarify here, Slash Gallagher, in that yes, I AM a ModFem. Just a very passionate one who's hard-line on things like sexual abuse, opposition to gender roles, and our systemic and personal victim-blaming. Other than that, you've never truly met any RadFems... women or men who think men are the enemy, must die, that men are naturally rapists or other shit like that, that look on even young boys as monsters, who believe that lesbian separatism is going to lead to a paradise, who believe that marriage is the concentration camp that holds women into sexual slavery, who wear slogans like how "dicks are disgusting" or something repulsive like that, who think the dynamics of human coupling was founded on women seeking out men for sexual protection and that makes women their slaves. Seriously, do you see me doing that? I only get super passionate when people miss the point on the most obvious things like believing a sexual abuse victim taking the responsibility of her attacker onto herself is somehow a good thing, and this isn't limited to male-on-female violence either, and it's equally bullshit either way. Who think a sexual abuse victim five minutes after the fact sympathizing with the "pain" of her attackers is somehow a sign of "strength" even though the person claiming this also insists she's "not innocent" - the implication being she deserves it, brought it on herself, or at best, it's more of that "taking the responsibility of somebody who chose to attack somebody unto the victim by the victim" mentality, because if a person really did ever do that, she's a fucking saint that doesn't deserve to be treated as a goddamn monster instead of the actual monsters doing that. What I object to so strongly is people blaming the victims for things they have no control over and trying to misrepresent an asshole as a victim when he or she is not, in a situation where they clearly are not. When people try to downplay the lifelong scars those leave, or the effect it has on women in that it leaves them pregnant or with STDs, I get mad. I wanna live in a world where those things don't happen, but damn it, if they have to happen, then you bet your ass I'm gonna treat them as the deplorable acts they are! But it doesn't make men the enemy. We're just victims of gender roles that more often than not disproportionately hurt females, but it doesn't make men any less victims. It also means we need to challenge this kind of stuff, because it hurts men and women both. It's why male victims are so hesitant to come forward, because we tend to see men as the leaders, strong and powerful and able to lead the way, simply because we have an outie and not an innie, which is so superficially shallow, it's beyond belief, but that's how society has conditioned us. And we force boys to be men before being kids, which is not how I was raised. I was a kid. I had fun, I cried, I did "girly" things the macho men in my community would have sneered at, but I didn't care. It's not healthy. It's not healthy at all.

[Yukaphile]

Oh here's another way I am not a RadFem, Slash. A RadFem would look at a woman modeling in lingerie or something for some ad, or something, and think that's her being sexually degraded. I don't think that. True, if she's low on her luck and doing this just for money, then she's wasting her talents, and being reduced to her base organ components. BUT! If it's genuinely because she finds empowerment in being found so pretty, I'm not gonna pass judgment on that choice or her lifestyle. Or if it's because she's low on her luck and doing this nevertheless still makes her feel appreciated for her beauty, then it's worth it. Whatever brings you joy, so long as it isn't unethical or evil, is a good thing. Hell, I think it's great if a woman if feels sexy, or even if a guy does too. RadFems seem to hate that.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

You know Slash is the kind of person that adds at most like 2-3 sentences as responses right?

[Yukaphile]

He'll probably still think I'm a RadFem, rather than a passionate ModFem.