Japan needs babies.

[Riedquat]

@LittleRaven And should we ignore that men's happiness is also decreasing? Depression is on the rise.

That's a serious issue (although there's probably some observation bias - people are more open about it these days, which is a good thing). I'm not sure that it's a related issue though, but there may be some overlap. The effects of a growing population and the impact that has on the environment I live in certainly depress me, but so do a lot of other changes that are going on.

[Yukaphile]

I get VERY depressed, and part of that is because of my lack of love life, and experience in that sort of thing, and my loneliness, among other factors - like the rampant injustice in the world and the people that have that kind of thing and take it for granted.

[clearspira]

The advantage of a shrinking birth rate is less humans on our polluted, overpopulated, overfarmed, overmined planet.

That is....very vague, and honestly seem out of step with my personal observations. Perhaps the UK is different, but here in the US, people generally want to move to places where there are already lots and LOTS of people. People want to move to New York or LA or Boston or San Francisco...nobody wants to move to Kansas, or Wisconsin, or New Mexico. The places where there aren't very many people are being abandoned in favor of ever more migration to the big cities.

But perhaps more importantly, I'm not sure you answered my question. If having fewer humans on our overcrowded planet is so desirable, why does prospect of that happening appear to scare the crap out of our leadership? Singapore is one of the most densely populated places on the planet, weighing in at a mind boggling 8,274 people per square kilometer...you'd think that if anyone would be down with having fewer people, it would be them. And yet Singapore is also one of the most pro-natal places on the planet, with their leadership becoming more and more panicked about their collapsing fertility rate every day. Why?

This, BTW, is why immigrant labour isn't a bad thing....

No disagreement from me on that. While immigration has it's own problems, it has allowed countries like the US and UK to survive falling birth rates with minimal pain.

One big difference between the US and UK is that if you DO want to move into the open, you have lots and lots of it. Britain is aprox the same size as Michigan for reference. We are the third most populated island in the world behind Java and Honshu.

The why is because it is still human nature to want babies. Humans are not rational animals in general; we think emotionally, we think instinctively, we think based on drives, only occasionally are we logical.

[Yukaphile]

I don't know if I want kids, as that's a lot of hard work, so much as a partner.

[Riedquat]

I get VERY depressed, and part of that is because of my lack of love life, and experience in that sort of thing, and my loneliness, among other factors - like the rampant injustice in the world and the people that have that kind of thing and take it for granted.

I get very depressed and I put a lot of that down to an increasingly intense dislike of the modern world, even though I'm happy to use some aspects of it. But we're all different. At least you've got the chance of finding someone. Being alone doesn't bother me - I need a lot of time to myself and I'd be driven up the wall by someone else getting in the way of that. But I do get a lot out of the details of my surroundings and the right balance of a hands-on approach to life, I'm damned glad I live in a 19th century stone house instead of something modern (trying to save up to get rid of the plastic-framed windows a previous occupier put in though) - if I saw no escape from bland, ever-increasing suburbia I think that would be the end of me.

I don't know if I want kids, as that's a lot of hard work, so much as a partner.

I do believe there is the right person out there for everyone, you just need to keep looking. Easier said than done, admittedly.

[Yukaphile]

I dislike the modern world just as much, though for probably completely different reasons - though in the same spirit. And as for myself, I meant alone in the "romantic/intimate" sense. Ever see that Drew Barrymore movie Never Been Kissed? Yeah, that's me. Google in the words "30-year-old virgin," and here's something rather discouraging. The results you'll get... are all slanted towards a primarily female point of view, how hard it is for them to be a 30-year-old virgin, or how they don't mind. To get it from a male perspective, you need to add "30-year-old male virgin" to your Google search. What the hell does that say about us as a society, about our values?

[Riedquat]

On that personal level, I'd say sod them to their attitude. Again, easier said than done.

[Yukaphile]

I do believe there is the right person out there for everyone, you just need to keep looking. Easier said than done, admittedly.

Again, that's not tying back to my point, which is that I'm uncertain if I want kids. I do have emotional needs that would be fulfilled with a partner, even a casual sex friend, that I don't know if I'd get with children. I have pets, and I love them to death, but a child is a whole other world, and they are DAMNED hard work. They're also a lifetime commitment, past even a mate - you can always remarry if they die. Besides, I'm pretty sure I'm entirely unfit. So, yeah, there's that snag.

[LittleRaven]

@LittleRaven And should we ignore that men's happiness is also decreasing?

Uhh...I'm not sure how you get THAT takeaway from any of my posts.

But the reason that more attention gets paid to women's happiness is because of the paradox angle. When it comes to happiness, men are simple creatures. (actually, my wife would say that men are simple creatures in general, but then she's married to me, so she might be biased) If a man feels like he has a meaningful job that he's good at, then he's very likely to be happy. It doesn't even really matter what the job is or how much it pays, what's REALLY important is how the man feels about it. Men who feel like they are productive and contribute are generally happy, men who do not feel that way are generally not. Which means two things:

• Men are generally happy, both historically and today.
• To the extent that men are unhappy, you can usually look at economic stats and instantly see why.

But with women....this pattern does not appear to hold. Women reported much, MUCH higher levels of happiness when Sylvia Plath was writing the Bell Jar than they do today, even though women currently enjoy unprecedented levels of economic and political power. In fact, their reported happiness levels have steadily fallen almost in lockstep with their liberation and professional success. (though as with all such studies, this is a generalized result with all kinds of exceptions) This is....not what people expected, and so it gets a lot of ink.

We know what to do to make men happier. Improve the economy, and BAM - happier men. Women are...more complicated.

[Riedquat]

I do believe there is the right person out there for everyone, you just need to keep looking. Easier said than done, admittedly.

Again, that's not tying back to my point, which is that I'm uncertain if I want kids. I do have emotional needs that would be fulfilled with a partner, even a casual sex friend, that I don't know if I'd get with children. I have pets, and I love them to death, but a child is a whole other world, and they are DAMNED hard work. They're also a lifetime commitment, past even a mate - you can always remarry if they die. Besides, I'm pretty sure I'm entirely unfit. So, yeah, there's that snag.

Close relationships are possible without children. I've absolutely no desire whatsoever for children myself.

Casual sex friend though? Sure, physical drivers can be strong but is it that or an emotional connection that you really want?