Japan needs babies.

[Mecha82]

Considering that US constitution does have freedom of religion over having one religion set as one for whole country it does seems to me that Founding Fathers of USA were Atheists themselves or at least sensible people that knew that forcing certain religion to everyone would had been bad idea considering that lot of Settlers arrived from Europe to America in order to flee religious persecution.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Happiness in being a housewife compared to happiness level of navigating career life or independence I guess is pretty apples and oranges. The trend depicted in the graph is, fine, I suppose, but the former condition represents a much more monotone fulfillment. Like anybody is going to spend all day raising their offspring in an often sacred partnership and just kinda go "yeah this is sheer drab. What a life I chose for myself." At least not in such a conscious and concise manner most of the time. Take somebody else who's not quite in the position they want, but chose it more of their own manifest. A lot easier to say, "yeah fuck my boss," and, "this job fucking blows." It's self determination.

[Yukaphile]

I mean, happiness as a housewife is a myth we tell ourselves, that women were protected, taken care of, and so on. Not that some women can't find that myth as appealing as men, but tbh, to find the right men who'd live up to it would be damn near impossible in today's world. I've seen stuff like Leave it to Beaver and Father Knows Best that paints housewives as having this kind of idyllic life where they're constantly pampered. That's at odds with the reality. Thanks to biased gender roles, no-fault divorce wasn't legalized until the 1970s, so many women were trapped in bad marriages. There was spousal abuse as much as anything else, and no human being is perfect, so at the very least, you're going to get disagreements that become fights among dare I say most people. And then there's marital rape, which was treated as a joke in the 1950s. A man can't rape his "property!" Because once a woman marries a man, thanks to warped biblical views, she becomes "his" to use whenever he wants. Trust me, clearspira, what we've gained has more than outweighed what we've lost, and I'm proud of that, and I still get depressed and lonely. I also don't think human beings are "simple creatures" that need a certain base set of requirements to be happy. In today's increasingly complex world, I hate to say it, what we need the most is more money. The rich hoard it to themselves, and poor people can't afford to escape from the hell that our world is, whether stuff like buying books, or streaming, or going to the movies, or yes, even stuff like heading to Vegas to one of the legal brothels for the "girlfriend experience" with one of the legal hookers. That's not a euphemism, btw, that is a real service they offer, to pamper you and talk to you and do stuff with you before getting to the boning, forming bonds, like a real pseudo-girlfriend.

[clearspira]

I mean, happiness as a housewife is a myth we tell ourselves, that women were protected, taken care of, and so on. Not that some women can't find that myth as appealing as men, but tbh, to find the right men who'd live up to it would be damn near impossible in today's world. I've seen stuff like Leave it to Beaver and Father Knows Best that paints housewives as having this kind of idyllic life where they're constantly pampered. That's at odds with the reality. Thanks to biased gender roles, no-fault divorce wasn't legalized until the 1970s, so many women were trapped in bad marriages. There was spousal abuse as much as anything else, and no human being is perfect, so at the very least, you're going to get disagreements that become fights among dare I say most people. And then there's marital rape, which was treated as a joke in the 1950s. A man can't rape his "property!" Because once a woman marries a man, thanks to warped biblical views, she becomes "his" to use whenever he wants. Trust me, clearspira, what we've gained has more than outweighed what we've lost, and I'm proud of that, and I still get depressed and lonely. I also don't think human beings are "simple creatures" that need a certain base set of requirements to be happy. In today's increasingly complex world, I hate to say it, what we need the most is more money. The rich hoard it to themselves, and poor people can't afford to escape from the hell that our world is, whether stuff like buying books, or streaming, or going to the movies, or yes, even stuff like heading to Vegas to one of the legal brothels for the "girlfriend experience" with one of the legal hookers. That's not a euphemism, btw, that is a real service they offer, to pamper you and talk to you and do stuff with you before getting to the boning, forming bonds, like a real pseudo-girlfriend.

It is a fact that there are women and men giving up careers because they want to be housewives. There are people who love sitting at home raising kids and have no interest in the 9 to 5.

[Yukaphile]

True, but traditionally, that was forced on women because of outdated religious views and gender roles and just plain old patronizing condescension. Stay-at-home dads tend to get mocked more, sadly, for being "feminine" and "less macho."

[Madner Kami]

True, but traditionally, that was forced on women because of outdated religious views and gender roles and just plain old patronizing condescension.

You can't say his words are true and at the same time proclaim that what is clearly happening naturally (and what you just called true), is somehow forced upon all the women doing it. It's easy to argue that it's hard to figure out what is the hen and what is the egg here, but women choose to be housewives with an obvious preference and you can't just say that this has always been due to being forced or coerced to, when women today still do that with a clear preference, despite having all options open to them.

[Yukaphile]

It's because of strong cultural bias and influence, from the parents, to the local community, all the way up to the federal level, that wanted women in a support role, but never a leading role. And that wasn't all patriarchy. Some of it genuinely was this kind of angelization I myself have, that I have to temper, in that they really didn't want them to be hurt. But a lot of times it was just a show, fake. And was more or less the "I have a dick and know better" attitude. I'm not talking about coercion, I'm talking about how our communities and our parents influence us, as well as our genetics, that push into wanting directions we might not have chosen otherwise, if circumstances had been different. Not to say people aren't responsible for these choices, of course. But then, our formative years are a maelstrom of absorbing all information we are given, and that shapes our inherent personality. Some think women have the best of both worlds today, where they can either be strong, or be feminine, and get no judgment, while men feel left behind because we're stuck with the same crap where we were 100 years ago, and I can sympathize with that. I do think that's where challenging gender roles is important, because due to this "men lead" attitude, it puts too much unrealistic pressure on young boys. Like the myth men don't cry. Please.

[Mecha82]

In Norse culture before Christianity took over from they own religion women could be in leading positions and held responsibility while they husbands that were Vikings (it was profession) were at sea exploring, raiding or fighting in wars. Also Shield Maidens were actual thing as well. Weird isn't it how Judo-Christian faiths (Islam is part of it) tends to change those things and force women into submissive gender roles when ever it has taken over from what ever faith that area had before that.

[Yukaphile]

Indeed. Hell, it's surprising to some people to learn even the pacifist Buddhists believe in hell. Yeah. That's amazing to me.

[Mecha82]

To be fair Buddhist belief to hell (Naraka) isn't similar to Judo-Christian belief to hell and is related to they belief of circle of re-incarnation.