Should old SciFi be judged by today's standards?

[Yukaphile]

Plus, "Parallels" makes headcanon super easy. Don't like what you're seeing on screen? Alternate universe!

[clearspira]

I think I tend to disagree with the majority here when I say that yes, absolutely you can judge older works by modern standards and in fact will go so far as to say that even people who say that they suspend judgement are almost certainly going to judge anyway subconsciously.

Space Seed? I'm not as sure. Do we have to take Marla McGivers as a statement about all women or is she just a weak character? Every character feels Khan's charm and magnetic presence, and it's established pretty early on that McGivers has some predispositions in his favor and even an obsession with him in particular. If it were made today, it would be made differently, but I'm not sure that should be counted against the episode.

This is a good example as to why modern standards are worse, because today I have no doubt that McGivers would be a STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER who gives as good as she gets - in other words, a cookie cutter character that makes Khan look weaker as a result. We need interesting female characters far more than we need STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well she was a throwaway character, I don't think today they'd be so concerned with that type being portrayed as strong confident woman.

[clearspira]

Plus, "Parallels" makes headcanon super easy. Don't like what you're seeing on screen? Alternate universe!

Yeah, pretty much. It fixes many of Trek's problems. Whilst we are on the subject, I've also seen one argument that paints Janice as ''transgendered 1960s style'' - as in ''rather insulting and misinformed''.

Its a pretty compelling argument, it would explain why she thinks women are so weak if she literally hates everything about her own body - she WANTS it to be true rather than it is true. And what is the first thing she did when she became Kirk? Pick him up in her new arms like a baby and start crowing about ''the indignity of being a woman''. Of course, later on she also does her nails but we are on to the ''1960s'' part again.

[Yukaphile]

Wait, aren't you the same person who dismissed me seeing transgender allegories in Dax? A woman with literal memories of being a male?

[clearspira]

Wait, aren't you the same person who dismissed me seeing transgender allegories in Dax? A woman with literal memories of being a male?

Memories of being male is not the same thing as being a woman who thinks being a woman is an indignity and steals the body of a man. Anyway it isn't my opinion, I am still of the opinion she's a nut.

[Yukaphile]

Oh, my mistake. Because yeah, that's hardly empowering for transgendered people, even if we wanna assume she and Dax are allegories. Dax would be far more empowering.

[clearspira]

I guess the Leia bikini is a good example of judging an old work by modern standards given Disney's attitude towards it. Me, I think the whole scene makes her more badass than perfect Rey could hope to be.

[Yukaphile]

You gotta balance the character's portrayal versus what the actress has to endure, and Carrie Fisher SEVERELY hated it. Boba Fett got a look into, um... let's say "Alderaan's South Pole," and she really hated it. At least those in charge were smart enough to let her strangle Jabba when she asked for it. Seriously, from an out of universe perspective, showing a slug being a pervert is not worth it if it hurts the real life actress in an arguably sexually demeaning way.

[Nealithi]

You gotta balance the character's portrayal versus what the actress has to endure, and Carrie Fisher SEVERELY hated it. Boba Fett got a look into, um... let's say "Alderaan's South Pole," and she really hated it. At least those in charge were smart enough to let her strangle Jabba when she asked for it. Seriously, from an out of universe perspective, showing a slug being a pervert is not worth it if it hurts the real life actress in an arguably sexually demeaning way.

Oddly the older I get the more I respect the scenes. Not 'oh she looks great do it more'. But the twin feelings. 'You did this to her? You poor fool.' So if she does not kill him. We are, for trying to harm our princess. But that is also a bit of changing taste for me. I think Chuck pointed out that in RotJ the director wanted to rein in the Leia character and make her more a 'girl'. Or that was my inference. And my thought was, you don't make a woman a girl. And pushing a leader down just means she climbs over you.

And I am one of those people whose opinion of cgi has reversed to liking older practical effects. Because it can be very over used and badly done. And characters don't interact with the effect like they would something real. But that may be a period thing in itself. Initial cgi was rare and well done. Used to fill in the blanks where sets and props couldn't and thus help the work. Then we use it to fill in everything and it is illusion breaking at times.

As to McGivers, I would actually like to see one or two like her in a modern work. But not as the door mat we have to rescue. As would likely be done. But to show a contrast and that there are other types of women out there. Sorry, but it is a time period thing. Women are not cookies cut from the same mold. So they used a different mold and say all women are now this. . . So yep still judging based on likes and dislikes of today.