Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood

[Madner Kami]

and its ridiculous that we have youtube button but no spoiler button... cause Then I'd probably get more into detail

You are posting on the forum of a review-podcast, about a live review of a show that was released in 2003-2004 (FMA) or 2009-2010 (FMA:B). Do you have the faintest idea about how ridiculous your complaint sounds?

[RobbyB1982]

The first FMA is probably the better character piece,especially for the brothers, but the last couple episodes are just so, soooo bad it taints the whole thing. Brotherhood is the better whole but less nuanced. I like the origin of the sins in 2003 better, Brotherhood their origin is just kind of whatever. 2003 has better music and pacing, especially in the early part. Brotherhood has slightly better animation. Brotherhood has a larger world and more characters. The character arc in both for Scar is similar but different and tells a different message.

They both have strengths and weaknesses and depend on the other existing. Brotherhood, especially its early episodes, would have been handled very differently if the first series didn't exist, and the first series would have been vastly different if it had been made a year or two later with more of the manga done. It still would have done a filler ending given the timing but might have been close enough to make Brotherhood superfluous. Neither is inherently better or worse, they're both about equal... just in different ways with diffferent strengths.

[AuRon]

The first FMA is probably the better character piece,especially for the brothers, but the last couple episodes are just so, soooo bad it taints the whole thing.

I've seen some people say this before. Did people really hate the (spoilers, if anyone cares) alternate world twist so much? Admittedly, those last few episodes are underwhelming, and obviously rushed. But I still thought they were okay (I liked the final confrontation between Mustang and Bradley). The show could have used another 5 - 10 episodes to wrap things up better though. But then, Brotherhood's early episodes were pretty rushed too. So both shows had the same problem, just in opposite directions.

[RobbyB1982]

Yes, the ending really was that bad. Its settled in 15 years later, but it was such a piece of junk of an answer to the questions and narrative in general. Not just the "Our alchemy is powered by WW2" solution but all the Dante stuff in general, super underwhelming final villain.

And there's a huge difference between "rushing the ending" and "rushing the start that was already done once a couple years ago." They're vastly different problems.

[ChrisTheLovableJerk]

Personally, I feel both shows are great. Yes, FMA's ending is a bit questionable, but overall I felt both shows were fantastic with a rich, deep, masterfully written story, but if I were forced to pick I'd say Brotherhood was better (I was on the edge of my seat throughout the last block of episodes and cheering in the final battle), though 2003 did have a more solid beginning, as Brotherhood felt like it was rushing to get past the stuff 2003 had already covered.

Also, I personally felt Brotherhood turning Izumi's blood vomit into a gag was incredibly bad taste, considering how tragic and heart-breaking the cause of it is, along with it having the manga's issue of Sheska just vanishing and 2003 did make Lust into a far more nuanced character. I kinda wish there was a hybrid of the two that somehow made both work, like 2003's versions of Rage and Sloth become additional sins that are in some (quite old) versions of the seven deadly sins Despair and Apathy.

[AuRon]

Not just the "Our alchemy is powered by WW2" solution but all the Dante stuff in general, super underwhelming final villain.

"Alchemy powered by WW2" is not really accurate. There were two worlds that were connected by the gate. The people who die in the one world (our world) power the alchemy in Ed's world. Or, more specifically their souls power it. I don't really see how this is a worse explanation than the one provided in Brotherhood, i.e. plate tectonics power alchemy. Its an explanation that sounds scientific, but doesn't actually make sense if you stop and think about it. How does shifting earth and drawing circles allow people to create fire by snapping their fingers, or fix a broken radio by clapping their hands? Its pseudo science, or perhaps even something akin to comic book science, like saying radiation gives you superpowers. At least FMA 2003 is upfront about the alchemy being based in fantasy, and doesn't try to pretend otherwise. Getting into heavy spoilers below.

I actually liked Dante as a villain. But, I'm also of the opinion that Father wasn't a great villain. He started off kind of interesting, but seemed to get progressively worse as the series went on. He was basically a cartoon villain who wanted to conquer the world. And the sins were just his henchmen who only lived to serve him. No ambitions of their own. As for Dante, the way she went out was anticlimactic. But, time constraints aside, I think that was partially because of the difference in focus between the two shows. Brotherhood was an action series with greater emphasis on spectacle. 2003 was more of a drama with emphasis on characters. The final conflict in Brotherhood was a series of long, drawn out battles. Sort of like what you would see in a hollywood blockbuster. In 2003, there are some fights, but it was never about that. Dante's demise was due to her own hubris. I won't deny that a real final battle between Ed and Dante would have been cool. But I still felt she was a more compelling villain than Father, who for me, often felt like too much of a cartoon for me to take seriously. And somehow his death was even less dignified than Dante's.

And there's a huge difference between "rushing the ending" and "rushing the start that was already done once a couple years ago." They're vastly different problems.

As I said earlier, I think of 2003 and Brotherhood as two separate series. So, I'm not going to give Brotherhood credit for things the first series did. That includes things like the deaths of Hughes and Nina (both of which fell flat for me in Brotherhood). I could mention other things I didn't like about Brotherhood, but won't. The point is, both shows have their flaws, but they also both have their own appeal. Brotherhood appeals more to you, while FMA 2003 appeals more to me. It comes down to difference of opinion.

[RobbyB1982]

Brotherhood appeals more to you, while FMA 2003 appeals more to me.

Lol, no it doesn't. I like the first series better overall.

It just had a super crap ending that tainted the whole thing.

[AuRon]

Fair enough. Agree to disagree then, I guess. I assume you're aware of the movie after the series too.

Also, I personally felt Brotherhood turning Izumi's blood vomit into a gag was incredibly bad taste, considering how tragic and heart-breaking the cause of it is

This I agree with. I think the first series might have used it as a gag once, but that was before the details of it were explained. After that it was always played seriously and dramatically. Which is why it was so jarring to see Brotherhood just treat it as a joke.

I kinda wish there was a hybrid of the two that somehow made both work, like 2003's versions of Rage and Sloth become additional sins that are in some (quite old) versions of the seven deadly sins Despair and Apathy.

Again, I agree. While I'm not really a fan of Brotherhood, I will acknowledge that there were some good things about it, and even a few things it did better than the first series. A version that combines the best elements from both shows into one definitive version could be great. Maybe they could even find some way to have both Dante and Father in the story somehow. Although, I would still prefer that it hew closer to the first series stylistically and tonally. I liked the darker and more mature style of 2003.

[Mecha82]

There is always option of watching first episodes of 2003 and then continue from that with Brotherhood so that you get best from both.

[RobbyB1982]

Fair enough. Agree to disagree then, I guess. I assume you're aware of the movie after the series too.

As bad as the series ending was, the movie ending made it 1000x worse. Ugh, that thing was atrocious and I will never ever watch it again.