TNG - Birthright

[FaxModem1]

Nah, Data should just add a jetpack augment, like [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REItHTPjCF4]Robocop[/url].

[MerelyAFan]

Part 2 is up: https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t243.php

The Worf stuff feels like it might have been better executed in DS9, which went for a more nuanced depiction of Klingon culture and likely would have more examined the harshest aspects of Worf's bigotry in the story.

[Mecha82]

Seeing that Klingon culture hadn't been fully developed during TNG it's no wonder that DS9 did it far better. Then again from those two DS9 is also better written series so there is also that.

[Meushell]

I feel for all the older Klingons here. They were ripped away from their families, and they can never go back. They find peace with the enemy though, and they make new families, have more children...only for Worf to come along and disrupt that peace and convince the new children to leave with him.

I also wonder what sort of life the new generation can actually have. I don’t see the Klingons accepting them. Maybe a lot of them just went back home after realizing that no one wanted them around.

(Edited because I commented on Ba’el leaving with Worf only to realize she didn’t.)

[Thebestoftherest]

Actually I would like if like how Worf alter them, they got some other soldiers to do the same. Questioning if they are dying for Honor even through some of them can't get honor because of the insane rules of the culture and realized they are dying so a bunch of old men can pretend to still be important.

[turbo_sailor67]

Worf's part of Birthright was very interesting to me; given my experiences with different groups and units and commands. There were good points that were brought up, like Worf's attitude towards the female Romulan/Klingon hybrid - but even then we have a history of Worf not exactly taking well to Klingons anyway. The running joke on this site in early TNG seasons is that Worf is just a feral animal, so I think Worf displays some nuance (for him) in dealing with this location that is Romulan and Klingon together.

Worf's declaration of "I'll stay, but you can't make me not be me while I'm here." is reminiscent to me of places and groups I've had to be in where they tried to make it so you were whatever they expected or demanded you to be while you were there, and nothing else. You're not allowed to have outside interests, not permitted to search for alternatives, or a community that one would better fit in as a community.

Certainly this place is NOT the place for Worf, but at no time does Worf put a gun - I mean a phaser to any individual's head and expect that all Klingons follow the one true way - Worf's way, then they should all be killed to save their honor.

What Worf does do is invite those who have any interest in exploring learning some aspects of their culture that they were unaware of, or forbidden to learn as the case may be. Yes he does instigate some of it, but Worf would never force any of the people there to come to his way of thinking.

Look at Worf's own experience with his son Alexander, how much he struggles to have him fit the mold of a perfect Klingon son. You can say that Worf dumps Alexander on his parents to get rid of him because he views his son as a failure, but more likely it's that Alexander isn't going to be able to adapt to the kind of active duty lifestyle that Worf has serving as ship's company.

I think he does a better approach here with playfully and gently (for Wof) guiding those who show interest into their heritage. If the society the Romulans and Klingons have built together can only sustain itself by forbidding anyone to ever leave the area, or learn about any Klingon culture, then it still is a prison, only a more benign one; and not particularly stable either if an outsider's ideas could bring the whole thing to collapse.

Should anyone I know who has served with me be asked, they would tell you that I push back against strict adherence to ideas, things that are explicitly forbidden, or tradition simply because I'm told "because I say so", for example: Command P.T. - no problem with that, however I said I would not participate in a command sports game because I just detest playing sports. Nowhere does it say I can be ordered to play a sports game -AFTER- P.T. with the unit simply because the majority would like to play so they can delay starting work. They were not happy at all because this is their custom and they've built a thing around it.

I always want to know why and that's not a question that people like hearing who are your superiors. That may be why I like the Worf story a lot more than either Data's, or the review's opinion. I'm fine with that being an unpopular opinion, it just seems to me that Worf's part of this got a lot more looking down on than it deserved.

[Darth Wedgius]

If I were Tokath I'd drop Worf off halfway across the planet. I'd assume they get the occasional starship visit. Worf might not survive, but would Tokath mind that greatly?

I never got the African American / African culture comparison, but I think it may have drifted a bit from that with Tokath being motivated by compassion rather than low-cost labor. As much as slave owners may have said they were helping Africans, they didn't seem to follow through on that basis. And what seems to be a native yearning for Klingon habits might go a bit too far into the culture = ethnicity direction for the comfort of many to keep that parallel up.

[Cheerilee]

One thing I always thought about this episode is that Worf's father Mogh was probably on that colony (at least for a time), but the episode glossed right over it. There's a chance that Worf might even have been speaking to his father (Mogh might have been calling himself L'Kor).

Shrek tells Worf straight-up "Your father is not dead. He is still alive. There were prisoners. Your father was among them, and I can tell you where he is right now." Bold words for someone being threatened for saying them.

All the adults on the colony are willing to live a lie (their deaths are faked) to prevent their children from knowing dishonor.

The first Klingon man Worf meets is L'Kor. Worf introduces himself as "Worf son of Mogh", and asks about his father. L'Kor says "Your father fell at Khitomer." Worf accepts this as fact and needs no convincing, but just hours earlier, Worf was outright rejecting the idea of anything else being the truth. Meanwhile L'Kor was friends with Mogh, L'Kor knows and recognized little Worf, and Worf seems to recognize L'Kor? Yeah. Sure. "Friends".

And then, when L'Kor refuses to escape and Worf is baffled, L'Kor explains "We are dead, Worf. We died at Khitomer." So L'Kor's claim that Mogh died at Khitomer is utterly hollow. L'Kor is willing and quite motivated to say that anyone is dead, including himself.

WORF: I understand your desire to preserve your family's honour. But what of your own? There is no honour in remaining prisoners.
L'KOR: We lost our honour when we were captured. It does not matter what happens to us.

If L'Kor is really Mogh (he could have given the Romulans an alias to prevent them from claiming a high-ranking capture, or maybe all of the captured Klingons gave fake names), it's clear that he's all-in on his lies and he would do anything to protect Worf from learning the truth.

L'KOR: Why did you come here? If you had found your father you would have found only dishonour.
WORF: If he had been captured as you were, if I had found him here, I would be glad to see him. There is no room in my heart for shame.
L'KOR: I can only hope that if my son came here, he would be Klingon enough to kill me.

Damn, son.

(BTW, Memory Alpha says that L'Kor was legitimately Mogh in the script phase, but the writers chickened out.)

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

(BTW, Memory Alpha says that L'Kor was legitimately Mogh in the script phase, but the writers chickened out.)

I was wondering about the decision to sustain his ultimate passing. Narratively it allows Worf to have his spiritual journey at this place, but it seems like a loose end that the show would have to come back to if he just left his father there.

[J!!]

WORF: Why didn't you tell me? You told me the Romulans betrayed and murdered my father.
L'KOR: Your father was captured and taken alive. He ceased to be Mogh and became L'Kor. When that happened, the honorable man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
WORF: A certain point of view?
L'KOR: Worf, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.