Trump Reinstates Federal Executions

[Draco Dracul]

I think the death penalty should be reserved for treason, otherwise the much cheaper LWOP will do the job just fine.

What is considered legit treason? Remember wikileaks case were sentence for treason was made because information that White House and Pentagon didn't want public to know was leaked. What says that they wouldn't then start executing people just for speaking against Government on made up treason charges.

No I don't, because that didn't happen. No one has been tried for treason since 1952.

Then why he was in solitary confinement from that? If he wasn't tried then why he was forced to endure all that that he did because that would make USA human rights violator.

Manning was tried and convicted of numerous charges of espionage, but not treason. Frankly I have very, very little sympathy for Manning, as she damaged the ability of legitimate whistle-blowers to function and raised the profile of Russian proxy wikileaks.

[Mecha82]

What makes Manning in your opinion non-legimate whistler-blower?

[CmdrKing]

The lesson of Chelsea Manning is that, in the eyes of the US Government, there is no such thing as a legitimate whistle blower. I'm not inclined to hold her responsible for not knowing what Assange was in 2010, and while you could certainly claim a stronger effort should have been made to leak to legitimate press, at the time Wikileaks was pretty much the only outlet to be openly critical of the government and military to that degree. I don't blame anyone for thinking they were the only place to turn to: I remember 2010 well enough to feel that... yeah, that was the pervasive feeling at the time.
What fools we were I guess.

Back on main topic... uh, y'all remember that the individual states that do executions also had to put them on hold because they couldn't get supplies for some of the drugs in lethal injections, and doing lethal injections without that missing drug was so horrific the executioners begged not to do it again yeah?

Oh and studies suggest about 4% of death row inmates are innocent: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/death-penalty-study-4-percent-defendants-innocent

4% is a flatly unacceptable failure rate for something guaranteed to end in death.

I mean we could dig into the philosophical quandaries of state executions but at a sheer practical level there's really goddamned compelling reasons we stopped doing them at as many levels as could be managed.

[Draco Dracul]

What makes Manning in your opinion non-legimate whistler-blower?

Primarily her inability or unwillingness to actually filter data as well as sidestepping the press, who might have done the same. Releasing the Collateral Murder video was justified, burning our local assets in Iraq and Afghanistan was not.

[Mecha82]

Oh and studies suggest about 4% of death row inmates are innocent: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/death-penalty-study-4-percent-defendants-innocent

4% is a flatly unacceptable failure rate for something guaranteed to end in death.

I mean we could dig into the philosophical quandaries of state executions but at a sheer practical level there's really goddamned compelling reasons we stopped doing them at as many levels as could be managed.

Thus is basically reason why I am not for capital punishments in general. There shouldn't be margin of error at all when end result is death of person. I know it's easy to demand death to some one when you have no responsibility or you aren't one who is going to be executed because of some mistake or failure in legal system.

What makes Manning in your opinion non-legimate whistler-blower?

Primarily her inability or unwillingness to actually filter data as well as sidestepping the press, who might have done the same. Releasing the Collateral Murder video was justified, burning our local assets in Iraq and Afghanistan was not.

Ah I see. So she did something like that. Well that would explain your stance to her.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I mean we could dig into the philosophical quandaries of state executions but at a sheer practical level there's really goddamned compelling reasons we stopped doing them at as many levels as could be managed.

Respectfully speaking, there's not much speculation to be had on if the death penalty is suitable for falsely accused people. I'm fairly certain anybody here was assuming guilty people in the model.

[Madner Kami]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States

[...]

This list includes only those exonerees or cases that already have supporting Wikipedia articles.

[...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States

[...]

Gross has no doubt that some innocent people have been executed.

Statistics likely understate the actual problem of wrongful convictions because once an execution has occurred there is often insufficient motivation and finance to keep a case open, and it becomes unlikely at that point that the miscarriage of justice will ever be exposed. For example, in the case of Joseph Roger O'Dell III, executed in Virginia in 1997 for a rape and murder, a prosecuting attorney argued in court in 1998 that if posthumous DNA results exonerated O'Dell, "it would be shouted from the rooftops that ... Virginia executed an innocent man." The state prevailed, and the evidence was destroyed.

[...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates#United_States

In October 2015, the Death Penalty Information Center said that there had been 156 exonerations of prisoners on death row in the United States since 1973.

[...]

Just because a jury decides that you are guilty, it does not mean that you are. Each innocent being murdered is one too many and a society that deems murder to be a means of justice in the first place, is a society that is just deeply broken. If murder is wrong, then murder is wrong.

I expected better of you, especially those here who consider themselves "progressives". You sit on the balcony and decry the injustices of the Trump regime, calling him Hitler, summoning the picture of concentration camps. Then you turn around and take no issue with the state murdering people, just because you do not like them or you percieve they are guilty. Regardless on if they are or not, you are fucking hypocrites and accomplices.

[CmdrKing]

Respectfully speaking, there's not much speculation to be had on if the death penalty is suitable for falsely accused people. I'm fairly certain anybody here was assuming guilty people in the model.

That should be read thusly:

In a hypothetical world where we could reasonably conclude that all prisoners slated for execution were guilty and that said executions would be swift, humane, and untaxing on the executioner, there are still valid philosophical objections to the state performing executions.
We do not live in that world, and indeed are so far from that world performing executions under present conditions is monstrous. As such having those philosophical discussions is of little value.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Respectfully speaking, there's not much speculation to be had on if the death penalty is suitable for falsely accused people. I'm fairly certain anybody here was assuming guilty people in the model.

That should be read thusly:

In a hypothetical world where we could reasonably conclude that all prisoners slated for execution were guilty and that said executions would be swift, humane, and untaxing on the executioner, there are still valid philosophical objections to the state performing executions.
We do not live in that world, and indeed are so far from that world performing executions under present conditions is monstrous. As such having those philosophical discussions is of little value.

I would think that there are at least a few cases where we know they did it.

[ProfessorDetective]

Back on main topic... uh, y'all remember that the individual states that do executions also had to put them on hold because they couldn't get supplies for some of the drugs in lethal injections, and doing lethal injections without that missing drug was so horrific the executioners begged not to do it again yeah?

My answer would be 'Bring back the guillotine'. It ain't pretty, but it IS painless and it don't need chems or volts.

Honestly, as long as he ain't offing people for disagreeing with him on Twitter or having a tan, I am actually cool with this. And I agree with Yuka, let's stick the rapists on the Mile with the psycho killers and the folks straight-up selling secrets to ISIS or whoever.

They still have to be put through due prosses, though. The Fifth Amendment is still a thing.